nokia already lost those users from the get go. why? because most of those users will walk into a store and not find an IT to play with.

so. is the n800 dead yet?

seriously... wtf nokia. get your sh*t together.

i'm just waiting for the meizu minione now. i'm so over this.

The key word where you are mistaken is "substantially". That just ain't gonna happen folks, for the very reasons iball and I have clearly stated.

Very small number of potential N800 users who would jump *wholesale* to iPod Touch. And in fact, based on some posts here, those are users who would buy the N800 by mistake and sell or return it eventually. So... no real dent there, sorry.

And those who think the number one communications device maker in the world is gonna roll over because Apple introduced a cute media player are out of their league in this discussion.

Different markets. Different devices. Different goals. Meaningless, miniscule overlap realistically.

For the life of me I cannot imagine why such a simple thing is so difficult for some to grasp.

And that wager is for anyone.

I know I am off topic, but I don't want to start a new thread on this... For anyone that hastily bought an iphone prior to the price drop, Apple announced that they will be giving $100.00 credit to the early adopters. Considering I'm one of the putzes that falls into that category, I am quite impressed. Yes, I still did pay more for the device, but Apple being a company for profit, they did not have to offer anything. This is a decent olive branch.

Sorry to get off topic.

That's nice. I'd rather have more real programmers attracted to the N800 - like they currently are - than "hackers" with sloppy code practices.
And look at all those PSP "hackers": 99% of them do nothing more than create a theme, build something in pathetic LUA code, or do a silly/stupid modification to code someone ELSE has already done (i.e. "custom firmwares"). You can count on ONE HAND the number of true PSP programmers.
Don't you dare compare the pathetic circus the PSP programming "scene" has become with what is happening with Nokia's Internet Tablets.
The two cultures, users, and market couldn't be more different.

THe PSP "hacking scene" as you call it has a nice open-source SDK for it and lots of homebrew developer support to surmount any serious issues that programmers run into.
So does the N770/N800.
The iPhone/iPod Touch does NOT. And a future firmware update to those devices in the future could possibly (probably) break any "hacked" software made to run on them.

Any company who depends upon "hackers" anything to "propel" their device to new levels doesn't deserve to be in business because it would show they have no fcuking clue how to run a business.
Apple - like Sony if you look deep enough - gives two *****s about your so-called "hackers". Sales matter, period, and "hackers" anything does NOT sell a goddamn thing in the business world.
Functionality and ease-of-use right out of the box do.

You want an example? Fine. The GP2X series of handheld devices have paltry sales numbers yet they are marketed as good for "hackers" and based upon open-source. Problem is, the hardware they went with is pathetic and they haven't figured out yet to throw wi-fi and bluetooth on the damn things.
Now, the same could be said of the N800 but the N800 has at least three things the GP2X doesn't: better word-of-mouth and reviews in the press, better hardware, and better battery-life.

Seriously, with some of the comments I've seen in here lately looks like some of you need to either go to school or go back to school because a lot of you don't know the first damn thing about Basic Business 101.

Decent olive branch? You do know people have ripped apart the iPhone and done a parts pricing on them and found out that Apple is charging an unsubsidized price more than DOUBLE of what it cost to make them, right?
The only reason the price is dropping on the iPhone is due to Apple recouping their R&D and initial manufacturing costs in the first batch of sucke-um-early adopters.
Apple is basically telling you "Thanks, sucker, we made our mint off you here's a Benjamin. Now go spend it on some more of our products."

So iball, according to business 101, what is the desired endgame for nokia internet tablets? and how does iphone/ipod touch relate to it, if at all?

But if Nokia cancels the IT, you don't have a paycheck, right?

But seriously, I agree that Nokia IT probably will not go away or at least there will be at least one more significant upgrade to it. They will play to their strengths to attempt to differentiate themselves, and will not try to be slicker or cooler in their SW development to match the iPod/iphone in that way, although there may be a nice google UI on the WiMax version. Likely candidates are increased connectivity i.e., WiMax (if Sprint doesn't stumble), 802.11n, bluetooth 2.1 and pairing improvements, etc., that Apple historically hasn't done. It will be interesting to see if and how there is an OVI tie-in. They may also speed up the next version which was probably going to be mid-to-late 2008 otherwise.

Interesting though how quickly they have become competitors - just the last 3 months. the iphone, then OVI, and now iPod touch. I know Nokia did not consider Apple to be a major competitor 12 months ago. It will be an interesting 2008, especially if Intel gets into the space with their MIDs.

The company that this might concern the most in the short term is not Nokia - it's AT&T (unless they already knew about it). Who is going to buy a iPhone (+2 yr AT&T contract) when you can get an iPod touch and your choice of phone for less? Especially if BT DUN is eventually supported.

I'm not iball and I don't know the answer but I think the N770/N800 thing was an experiment to see how open source community could work with a hardware manufacturer in reducing the traditional costs around the Nokia products. If you read Qgils and Ari's statements it seems that Nokia is quite pleased with what they were able to achieve and the costs involved in product launch and development. As for the future I think Nokias involvement in the whole MID movement with Intel etc is a good indication that they are not dropping out.

ah well, with attitude like that best to add me to your ever-growing ignore list then mate!