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richwhite |
2011-02-18
, 20:04
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Posts: 908 |
Thanked: 501 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ West Sussex, England
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#1481
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Originally Posted by ysss
Right, and i agree with that too. But none of this is actually contradicting what i said that you took exception to. All it's doing is supplying reasons for the action. That's fine, but the action always had a reason, as all actions do. That doesn't change the facts of the end though, which is what i put in my original post
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2011-02-18
, 20:06
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Posts: 963 |
Thanked: 626 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Connecticut, USA
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#1482
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All I can say is that I hope Elop becomes the next CEO of Microsoft. Muah, ha, ha, ha. 
__________________
-- Worse than not knowing is not wanting to know! --
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-- Worse than not knowing is not wanting to know! --
http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/
| The Following User Says Thank You to rm42 For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-02-18
, 20:14
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#1483
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Originally Posted by richwhite
Actually I supplied some logical answers to your reasoning that Elop is a trojan horse (Acting against Nokia's interest) which you posed as questions "Why did elop put all eggs in..."
Right, and i agree with that too. But none of this is actually contradicting what i said that you took exception to. All it's doing is supplying reasons for the action. That's fine, but the action always had a reason, as all actions do. That doesn't change the facts of the end though, which is what i put in my original post
I'm arguing that it may be in Nokia's best interest afterall to take MS' offer at this point, and that Elop was not purely acting against Nokia's interests in brokering this deal.
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
| The Following User Says Thank You to ysss For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-02-18
, 20:27
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Posts: 963 |
Thanked: 626 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Connecticut, USA
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#1484
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Has this been posted already?
http://online.wsj.com/video/nokia-ce...rticle_related
http://online.wsj.com/video/nokia-ce...rticle_related
__________________
-- Worse than not knowing is not wanting to know! --
http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/
-- Worse than not knowing is not wanting to know! --
http://temporaryland.wordpress.com/
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2011-02-18
, 20:36
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Posts: 908 |
Thanked: 501 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ West Sussex, England
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#1485
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Originally Posted by ysss
This was my next (or second next?) post on it:
Actually I supplied some logical answers to your reasoning that Elop is a trojan horse (Acting against Nokia's interest) which you posed as questions "Why did elop put all eggs in..."
I'm arguing that it may be in Nokia's best interest afterall to take MS' offer at this point, and that Elop was not purely acting against Nokia's interests in brokering this deal.
"Right. The 'trojan horse' term isn't helping proceedings at all, and we don't need any term to acknowledge that Elop has just chased the money. Whether that's being a TH to MS or just offering Nokia to the highest bidder is irrelevant, the end result (or initial goal) is hardly too different."
In any case, your posts were logical, but logical answers? I'm not so sure. From my own humble perspective, here's what would have been the best thing to do:
1) Continue Symbian. The N8 alone sold 5million handsets in its first 2 months, there IS demand for this OS and it's what keeps Nokia afloat.
2) Continue developing MeeGo.
3) Join MS with WP7 so that top-end devices can come out pretty quick, apps already exist, Nokia can hit the North American market etc etc all the reasons Elop gave for the merge.
4) When MeeGo is ready, release it.
This strategy is multi-purpose. Firstly, it keeps the huge userbase in Asia who use Symbian. Whether the OS gets phased out in a year's time or not is irrelevant, keep it going until you put something else on the market. This is especially important considering most of Nokia's earnings are from feature phones, not smartphones. Secondly, it still has 'live' OSs on the market. Thirdly, they have two high-end OSs on the market by this time next year. Destroying existing OSs on the market and putting everything into an unproven one is not sensible.
| The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to richwhite For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-02-18
, 20:36
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Posts: 513 |
Thanked: 651 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
@ Sweden
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#1486
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Originally Posted by ysss
There was absolutely nothing wrong with Nokia before Elop was hired. Even the current ugly Symbian is selling very well and the company is pulling in huge profits. But since Elop joined it went downhill. How many Symbian phones do you think they will sell after the burning platform memo? And moving to a system which has 1.5% of the smartphone market does not seem like a very smart move to me. Also how are they going to be able to sack people when they're extending their portfolio with WP7? But we'll see who's right in a year or so.
That Nokia was in a worse condition (strategically, financially.... practically) than we assumed.
Otellini mentioned that as the reason Nokia exited MeeGo.
I'm not familiar with the Symbian side of things, but judging from their HUGE cutbacks (approved by the BOD and Jorma Ollila), which is no small issue at all since it relates to national matter/pride/economy... then there must be some issues there that they've decided they need to cut their losses out of.
__________________
But the WM7 "horse" has a blood lineage tracing back to donkeys such as WM6.5, 6.1, 6.0, 5.1 that was fully neglected for too many years and Microsoft did sweet F all to maintain it (still running on Pocket IE4/6!!).
But the WM7 "horse" has a blood lineage tracing back to donkeys such as WM6.5, 6.1, 6.0, 5.1 that was fully neglected for too many years and Microsoft did sweet F all to maintain it (still running on Pocket IE4/6!!).
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2011-02-18
, 21:00
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Posts: 4,384 |
Thanked: 5,524 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
@ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
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#1487
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Originally Posted by richwhite
Either I'm missing your point or you're dismissing the subtle difference. But no matter, I think the management is posed with these choices:
This was my next (or second next?) post on it:
"Right. The 'trojan horse' term isn't helping proceedings at all, and we don't need any term to acknowledge that Elop has just chased the money. Whether that's being a TH to MS or just offering Nokia to the highest bidder is irrelevant, the end result (or initial goal) is hardly too different."
1. MeeGo: They must've heard that FOSS projects, when managed right, can yield ultra-high ROI. But 5+ years with NIT and a potential partner in Intel, which is the bahemoth in x86 hardware yet unproven in mobile space and software development, is not such a safe choice to bet the whole farm on.
2. Symbian: Look at their R&D spending on Symbian. nuff said.
(symbian is king in the low-mid range handset, which are facing seriously RECEDING profit margin. Nokia is just not getting a sustainable return from all the money they're pumping into this thing.
3. Android: Good tech, open enough, etc etc... already discussed here endlessly. And the reason Nokia shouldn't go this route has also been addressed many many times: Nokia will just be another handset maker in Google's stable. In the long term, Nokia will help Google to strategically unseat Apple, BB, Palm and Windows, with no strategic value and not much to gain on their end. Least risk, least gain.
4. Windows: Ballmer is a lunatic and ex boss. He's got huge battlechest (cash) and is desperate enough to do ANYTHING for smartphone marketshare. On top of that, by taking on Windows, Nokia has a chance to chase/unseat(??) Google, BB and Apple while still holding a significant control. I'm talking about Nokia being a HUGE part of WP7's marketshare, which create a co-dependency (symbiotic?) between MS-Nokia.
Nokia has been consistently missing their product launch deadline. By giving the WP7 device launch target on 2012, he will be able to break this. I've read in one of the interviews that one of their staff mentioned that Elop's internal timetable for WP7 device is by end of 2011.
As far as MeeGo is concerned, he's keeping it on leash in case Intel breaks through the market somehow with it.
And I'm sure that he will negotiate WP7/8 exclusivity for 5 years or less.
__________________
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Class .. : Power User
Humor .. : [#####-----] | Alignment: Pragmatist
Patience : [###-------] | Weapon(s): Galaxy Note + BB Bold Touch 9900
Agro ... : [###-------] | Relic(s) : iPhone 4S, Atrix, Milestone, N900, N800, N95, HTC G1, Treos, Zauri, BB 9000, BB 9700, etc
Follow the MeeGo Coding Competition!
| The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to ysss For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-02-18
, 21:36
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Posts: 2,050 |
Thanked: 1,425 times |
Joined on Dec 2009
@ Bucharest
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#1488
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Originally Posted by xerxes2
Oh, yeah, they were doing great before Elop, market share was up, Maemo was supported, Meego was finished, Symbian wasn't an old, simple OS, Nokia was doing revolutionary work and design.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with Nokia before Elop was hired.
Before Elop, every single phone Nokia put out was revolutionary and not a copy-paste of other phones with another button on top.
The sheer revolution of having a button that starts Media Player warranted the launch of the X-press Music line. Until then, people had to start their player by pushing a physical button. The X-press of it all!
In fact, Steve told me he was about to sell Apple and use what's left of their company to buy a box of matches. Google wanted to dissolve Android in a vat of molten metal.
Then Elop came along and it all went to hell. In 3 months.
__________________
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
N900 dead and Nokia no longer replaces them. Thanks for all the fish.
Keep the forums clean: use "Thanks" button instead of the thank you post.
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2011-02-18
, 21:45
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Posts: 513 |
Thanked: 651 times |
Joined on Feb 2011
@ Sweden
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#1489
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Originally Posted by ndi
http://www.nokia.com/about-nokia/fin...al-information
Oh, yeah, they were doing great before Elop, market share was up, Maemo was supported, Meego was finished, Symbian wasn't an old, simple OS, Nokia was doing revolutionary work and design.
Before Elop, every single phone Nokia put out was revolutionary and not a copy-paste of other phones with another button on top.
The sheer revolution of having a button that starts Media Player warranted the launch of the X-press Music line. Until then, people had to start their player by pushing a physical button. The X-press of it all!
In fact, Steve told me he was about to sell Apple and use what's left of their company to buy a box of matches. Google wanted to dissolve Android in a vat of molten metal.
Then Elop came along and it all went to hell. In 3 months.
"In Q4 we delivered solid performance across all three of our businesses, and generated outstanding cash flow. Additionally, growth trends in the mobile devices market continue to be encouraging."
Look at the figures and you see what I mean. Yes they've lost "some" market share in the smartphone segment but MeeGo/Qt was supposed to fix that in the near future. Why the heck throw that away before it's even released? I don't get it and probably never will.
And yes, Elop destroyed Nokia in three months. Nokia the new Enron.
__________________
But the WM7 "horse" has a blood lineage tracing back to donkeys such as WM6.5, 6.1, 6.0, 5.1 that was fully neglected for too many years and Microsoft did sweet F all to maintain it (still running on Pocket IE4/6!!).
But the WM7 "horse" has a blood lineage tracing back to donkeys such as WM6.5, 6.1, 6.0, 5.1 that was fully neglected for too many years and Microsoft did sweet F all to maintain it (still running on Pocket IE4/6!!).
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2011-02-18
, 22:01
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Banned |
Posts: 706 |
Thanked: 296 times |
Joined on May 2010
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#1490
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Originally Posted by ysss
Beautifully said. I think that many arguments here are by bruised European egos that cant stomach the fact that Nokia decided to abandon Symbian for american OS, WP7. Forget about Europe vs. America. NOKIA did the right thing by joining with MS. I bought N8 and I tell you its sitting in my glove compartment. Besides camera its OS is just not good enough to cut it in the competitive market. I also played with WP7, much more fluid, much more responsive than Symbian 3.
Either I'm missing your point or you're dismissing the subtle difference. But no matter, I think the management is posed with these choices:
1. MeeGo: They must've heard that FOSS projects, when managed right, can yield ultra-high ROI. But 5+ years with NIT and a potential partner in Intel, which is the bahemoth in x86 hardware yet unproven in mobile space and software development, is not such a safe choice to bet the whole farm on.
2. Symbian: Look at their R&D spending on Symbian. nuff said.
(symbian is king in the low-mid range handset, which are facing seriously RECEDING profit margin. Nokia is just not getting a sustainable return from all the money they're pumping into this thing.
3. Android: Good tech, open enough, etc etc... already discussed here endlessly. And the reason Nokia shouldn't go this route has also been addressed many many times: Nokia will just be another handset maker in Google's stable. In the long term, Nokia will help Google to strategically unseat Apple, BB, Palm and Windows, with no strategic value and not much to gain on their end. Least risk, least gain.
4. Windows: Ballmer is a lunatic and ex boss. He's got huge battlechest (cash) and is desperate enough to do ANYTHING for smartphone marketshare. On top of that, by taking on Windows, Nokia has a chance to chase/unseat(??) Google, BB and Apple while still holding a significant control. I'm talking about Nokia being a HUGE part of WP7's marketshare, which create a co-dependency (symbiotic?) between MS-Nokia.
Nokia has been consistently missing their product launch deadline. By giving the WP7 device launch target on 2012, he will be able to break this. I've read in one of the interviews that one of their staff mentioned that Elop's internal timetable for WP7 device is by end of 2011.
As far as MeeGo is concerned, he's keeping it on leash in case Intel breaks through the market somehow with it.
And I'm sure that he will negotiate WP7/8 exclusivity for 5 years or less.
This is a win-win for NOKIA. They can still pursue their weegos and meegos and partner with MS that KNOWS how to do software engineering.
And Elop did the timing brilliantly. You dont want to sink with no return. Symbian is destined for history. Sure, masses will still use it for another 5-6 years and you will get your support and so on. But just like any other OS, things change and WP7/8/9/10 will give everyone else run for their money. I would be excited to be at NOKIA know, with new beginning, new cash infusion and ability to work for innovators like MS
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| Tags |
| bye-nokia, i don't even, just shoot him, just shoot me, let's elope, lockdown, meego?fail, negatron dan, nokia defiled, nokia suicide, sell tulips, step 8 out of 5, the-end?, www.elop.org |
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