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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-03-15 , 23:23
Posts: 4,556 | Thanked: 1,624 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#141
Originally Posted by jaysire View Post
I like how people are defending this device by saying "It's not a phone, it's a computer!" and "Omg, did you think you bought a phone?" and then in the next breath it's "Why would you expect your phone to be upgradeable to the next OS version?". Well, I've upgraded all my other "computers", so why not this one?
Sure you can upgrade it, whether the company supports it or not is another story.

E.g. Updating Windows and Linux and not having driver support for the hardware.

And DaveP1's point is spot on. Though there is a benefit for Nokia to maintain the N900, namely their reputation. Of course whether they care or not is up to them.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 
Matan is offline Matan
2010-03-15 , 23:31
Posts: 1,224 | Thanked: 1,763 times | Joined on Jul 2007
#142
Originally Posted by DaveP1 View Post
But from their point of view, what's stupid about it? It will cost them money to make Meego work on the N900. It will not sell any new units. And I strongly suspect that this community will not want to pay for the upgrade.
It will sell more units - see people on this forum selling their devices for this reason. A sold used device might mean a lost new device sell.

It will also sell other devices. See the people declaring on this forum - "this is the last Nokia I buy", with this as a reason.

I know that when I am asked to advise people on buying a new high end phone, I suggest N1 rather than N900, mainly due to bad phone functionality and no hope of improvement.

For that matter, what pressure? "Dear Nokia, if you don't put Meego on the N900 I won't buy a new Nokia phone." But if they do put Meego on the N900 you won't buy a new Nokia phone either!
See above.

But besides that, if you're happy with the N900, why would you want to change to a new, unproven, OS mashup?
What makes you think I am happy with the N900? The hardware is reasonable, given the constraints (a larger screen and no cell connectivity would have been much better). But the software is just miserable. The phone functionality fails to achieve feature parity with the 20 Euro Nokia 1209. About the GPS software enough has been said. It is supposed to be open, but any change you try to make, you find an annoying Nokia binary in your way (yes, MCE, I am talking about you). In a lot of places, there is obvious functionality for the keyboard, yet the keys do nothing, as if there was a decision to make the keyboard useless.

A few of those will be fixed in Harmattan, a few will be fixed in a system with less proprietary components, but It appears as if none of those will come to the N900.
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"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".

No more Nokia devices for me.
 
egoshin is offline egoshin
2010-03-15 , 23:47
Posts: 992 | Thanked: 995 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ California
#143
Originally Posted by Matan View Post
It is supposed to be open, but any change you try to make, you find an annoying Nokia binary in your way (yes, MCE, I am talking about you).
Matan, MCE is not a difficult thing to replace. The only thing which keeps me from hacking all that stuff is Nokia - they are DOING well in bug fixes and upgrades so far. I don't want to mess with it.

Well, I am not fully truthful - lack of time also pays a toll.
 
Matan is offline Matan
2010-03-15 , 23:53
Posts: 1,224 | Thanked: 1,763 times | Joined on Jul 2007
#144
MCE controls practically everything on the device:
Code:
N900:/usr/lib/mce# ls /usr/lib/mce/modules/
libaccelerometer.so             libcallstate.so                 libfilter-brightness-simple.so  libled.so
libalarm.so                     libcamera.so                    libhomekey.so                   libvibrator.so
libaudiorouting.so              libdisplay.so                   libinactivity.so
libbattery.so                   libfilter-brightness-als.so     libkeypad.so
It probably even controls stuff that is not there. I wonder what libhomekey.so does.

Its interface with everything else is completely undocumented. It will take a lot of reverse engineering to replace it.
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My repository

"N900 community support for the MeeGo-Harmattan" Is the new "Mer is Fremantle for N810".

No more Nokia devices for me.
 
egoshin is offline egoshin
2010-03-16 , 00:12
Posts: 992 | Thanked: 995 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ California
#145
Originally Posted by Matan View Post
MCE controls practically everything on the device:
Code:
N900:/usr/lib/mce# ls /usr/lib/mce/modules/
libaccelerometer.so             libcallstate.so                 libfilter-brightness-simple.so  libled.so
libalarm.so                     libcamera.so                    libhomekey.so                   libvibrator.so
libaudiorouting.so              libdisplay.so                   libinactivity.so
libbattery.so                   libfilter-brightness-als.so     libkeypad.so
It probably even controls stuff that is not there. I wonder what libhomekey.so does.

Its interface with everything else is completely undocumented. It will take a lot of reverse engineering to replace it.
You right, I was very fast and judged only by short glance.

But it doesn't mean that it should be a single app after replacement.

BTW, I guess libhomekey.so is just control of small top button... just by sense.

The biggest part is a battery control... to repeat the right sequence of charge which clearly depends from battery design.
 
attila77 is offline attila77
2010-03-16 , 01:18
Posts: 3,319 | Thanked: 5,610 times | Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland
#146
Originally Posted by Matan View Post
On the other hand, I (and apparently some others) believe that with enough pressure Nokia will understand the stupidity of deciding not to get Harmattan to work on N900, and will avoid that decision.
Harmattan ? There never was said anything about Harmattan on the N900. Harmattan is not MeeGo technically (apart from Qt), it's 'just' rebranded Maemo 6, has nothing to with this discussion. It will be a hell of a confusion for quite a while (and to make things worse, Intel calls Moblin 2.2 MeeGo, too).
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geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-03-16 , 01:44
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#147
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
Harmattan ? There never was said anything about Harmattan on the N900. Harmattan is not MeeGo technically (apart from Qt), it's 'just' rebranded Maemo 6, has nothing to with this discussion. It will be a hell of a confusion for quite a while (and to make things worse, Intel calls Moblin 2.2 MeeGo, too).
Harmattan on N900 was discussed ad nauseum before Meego existed. Currently it is unclear that they will merge Meego N (Harmattan) to Meego 1.0 (Maemo + Moblin). I agree that it makes sense to migrate Maemo 5 to Harmattan. You can can call both Meego if you'd like. it's just branding. At some later stage when Meego is mature enough then you move them both over and kill all precursor Maemo variants.

Nokia need to converge its releases not keep spawning new ones.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-03-16 , 01:55
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#148
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
Harmattan on N900 was discussed ad nauseum before Meego existed.
...by Nokia?
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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-03-16 , 02:16
Posts: 4,556 | Thanked: 1,624 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#149
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
Nokia need to converge its releases not keep spawning new ones.
Agreed. That's the single most annoying thing I have seen so far from Nokia. Like I said before, every time they do that they set back tons of developmental work.

Hopefully with standard QT libraries that'll stop happening.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 
geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-03-16 , 02:16
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#150
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
...by Nokia?
Nokia has never made an official statement and I don't know what discussions they've had internal. I can only reference what I've seen on TMO and it has been discussed here many times and apparently some still want to see it happen.

Personally I think they should kill Fremantle and Harmattan and give full access to changes, both firmware and base apps to the commuinity.

Force an upgrade to Meego 1.0 ready or not, with official support but those that love the Maemo way they can continue to hack until their blue in the face. No ambiguity. Meego = support. Maemo = hackfest.

I see no reason why Harmattan should be productized with Meego on the horizon (and forget the branding) and personally I want to see who can make a better OS, the community with Maemo or Nokia and Meego! Let the better man win.
 
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