[Council] By-Laws for Hildonfoundation - Page 16 - maemo.org

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freemangordon	2012-11-03 , 07:55
Posts: 3,074 \| Thanked: 12,960 times \| Joined on Mar 2010 @ Sofia,Bulgaria	#151

Originally Posted by Estel

Last time I checked, wiki was something to move (content) into another place. Have I missed something, or are you referring to doubts about success of migrating anything?

I was referring to what I know, i.e. wiki will not be migrated. It seems I miss something, would you point me to your source of information.

...
Generally, working on such important document as Bylaws by binary attachments to poss,t is best way to get low cooperation ratio from Community - which is what we got, actually.

"it have been attached to posts for three months" is just like Hitchhiker guide to Galaxy - announcement about destroying earth was posted in galactic office for many months, too

/Estel

********. Even I am aware of those docs and can find them in a matter of minutes. Not that I feel a need to do it, there were people I trust to discuss and change them. And usually I tend to stand away from legal stuff and paperwork.

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Last edited by sjgadsby; 2012-11-06 at 13:25. Reason: Do not evade the language filter.

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	Estel	2012-11-03 , 11:24
	Posts: 5,028 \| Thanked: 8,613 times \| Joined on Mar 2011	#152

Originally Posted by freemangordon

I was referring to what I know, i.e. wiki will not be migrated. It seems I miss something, would you point me to your source of information.

Can't do, as it was "somewhere in some thread", which means that a) I may be wrong, totally, b)I may be right, but unable to find sources, due to mess in documenting it.

All of above wouldn't be a problem, if "roadmap" would be wiki'dized.

Originally Posted by freemangordon

Bullsh|t. Even I am aware of those docs and can find them in a matter of minutes. Not that I feel a need to do it, there were people I trust to discuss and change them. And usually I tend to stand away from legal stuff and paperwork.

Sure thing - everything can be done with enough effort put into it, even using clay plate and stick to write them, then share via professional runners. Although, I'm quite sure, that we want to make it easier to participate, not harder.

Not everyone reads TMO religiously. Not everyone is so fluent at those things. Not everyone read it periodically, yet still, even after week, two, or more of absence, he should be able to easily find latest revision of bylaws, in one place.

This, + your own example with migrating wiki, is good reason why standard tools of Free (as in freedom), collaborative development aiding tools should be used. In our possession, should tool is a Wiki.
---

From a different barrel of vine - I can't imagine losing all of knowledge from wiki, during migration. But it's rather a thing for "Ask the Board" thread, than bylaws one.

/Estel

// Edit

to be understood correctly - my points about using wiki are purely meritocratic, I'm not accusing anyone of doing it wrong. Woody stated, that he was seriously ill, and it's more than enough explanation why something wasn't done, when we're talking about volounteer.

Of course, it could be also done by others (which I did by starting bylaws page on wiki) - just no one did it before. In my opinion, it's a result of bad/very bad "collaborative work motivation/management" from current Council, which I highlighted few times (irritating some zealots), but a) it isn't directly related to work on bylaws, so doesn't belong here b) topic became too much "political", to discuss it without personal antagonisms, sadly.

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Last edited by Estel; 2012-11-03 at 11:28.

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	misterc	2012-11-03 , 11:37
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#153

sjgadsby, Texrat,

Estel is not contributing anything to this discussion.
he is trying to troll the discussion based on this conviction (pun intended)

he can't accept that he got kicked out of Council
corollary of that being that the Community is being hijacked by Woody (and the rest of the Council)

to this succinct abstract of what has been going on on this thread (and most others related to Council/Community business i'm aware of) the last few months there is another troublesome point...

Originally Posted by Estel

I wonder, how much people would accept to pay for metal variant (including slider mechanism, etc) of project here?

/Estel

// Edit

I'm asking, as it looks super-easy to do using my CNC machine, and, if demand would be high, I could do it, using it as a way of speeding up financing N900's full body replacement project.

I.e. creating metal version of projects that you already did, guys, wouldn't take me for too longs from my main project, and, at the same time, boost finances for it.

I think, that people would also benefit much - metal slider and case should be much more durable, not to mention possibility of using thinner parts here and there (unable to be print by 3D printers, due to construction stability issues, but easy for CNC mill).

WTF does that have to do with anything?!?

what does using a bluetooth keyboard for the N9 have to do with N900 casing?
independently of his objective with that post (come to that in a moment) he obviously has no clue what he is talking about... the whole point of those hardware keyboard casings being in plastic is that you can easily fit in the N9 and that it remains in place
that does not make any sense with metal parts...
is the guy actually phishing the Community to pay for his CNC device, whatever that is ?

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	woody14619	2012-11-06 , 04:08
	Posts: 1,455 \| Thanked: 3,309 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY	#154

Originally Posted by Estel

Of course, it could be also done by others (which I did by starting bylaws page on wiki) - just no one did it before.

Ah, but someone did volunteer to do it, they just never did what they said they would.

Originally Posted by Estel

topic became too much "political", to discuss it without personal antagonisms, sadly.

Really?

You, of all people saying that, being the primary antagonist? Priceless.

Originally Posted by misterc

the last few months there is another troublesome point...
is the guy actually phishing the Community to pay for his CNC device

Until about an hour after your post when his signature was wiped (by him, I'd guess?), yes he was. This is not the first time he abused the community in this way though, and I'm not talking about CA...

For those that would like to see his signature before it changed, Google cache still shows it in full. It included a mention of his "opposition" to the current Council, a small list of hardware mods, and a statement that people should PM him to donate toward his costly hardware mods, as he's no longer using "ScamPal" to collect contributions. Probably because they resolved a dispute against him at some point, when someone was displeased by the lack of delivery on his promises.

I love that his "opposition" post is mainly an out of context set of quotes from Ivan and I, where he admonishes, saying:

Originally Posted by Estel

You would except little more responsibility and psychical stability from Council, and, especially, it's chair.
[... because when I was Chair & difficulties were around...]
nobody responded "fine, You're dropping **** on us, then we will take our toys and vanish".

Humerus, since as I recall that's exactly what he did, as Chair, when he felt someone was "dropping **** on him". So here, he says by rhetorically threatening to do the same action he did, we're being irresponsible and showing "psychical" instability...

It's not wonder I couldn't predict the future, what with my psychical abilities being negative.

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thedead1440	2012-11-06 , 04:13
Moderator \| Posts: 6,215 \| Thanked: 6,400 times \| Joined on Nov 2011	#155

woody nice one

That sums it up very well!

I was surprised to see above your post that Estel is banned! Finally he got his comeuppance...Edit: He has made another account...

On-topic:

So have the by-laws been approved by the Board already as the Board has been elected...Any progress on that front? Would the Board consider publishing minutes too like the Council?

Thanks!

Last edited by thedead1440; 2012-11-06 at 06:42.

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ivgalvez	2012-11-06 , 08:14
Posts: 1,397 \| Thanked: 2,126 times \| Joined on Nov 2009 @ Dublin, Ireland	#156

Originally Posted by thedead1440

woody nice one

So have the by-laws been approved by the Board already as the Board has been elected...Any progress on that front? Would the Board consider publishing minutes too like the Council?

Thanks!

Minutes are being cooked at the moment. The meeting over VoIP was a bit painful, fortunately most of the tasks do not require a meeting and can be discussed by email/IRC.

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Letsee	2012-11-06 , 10:29
Banned \| Posts: 2 \| Thanked: 1 time \| Joined on Nov 2012	#157

Originally Posted by woody14619

Until about an hour after your post when his signature was wiped (by him, I'd guess?), yes he was. This is not the first time he abused the community in this way though, and I'm not talking about CA...

For those that would like to see his signature before it changed, Google cache still shows it in full. It included a mention of his "opposition" to the current Council, a small list of hardware mods, and a statement that people should PM him to donate toward his costly hardware mods, as he's no longer using "ScamPal" to collect contributions. Probably because they resolved a dispute against him at some point, when someone was displeased by the lack of delivery on his promises.

Despite fact, that you're going off-topic in thread for hildon foundation (sic!), I would be extremely thankful, if you would not try to disgrace my projects - like aluminum black cover body for N900 - just because you're in bad mood.

I haven't deleted my signature, (even less due to reading misterc crap - not possible, as I have in on my ignore list, for ages). It was done by abusive moderator, who got personal issue with me. No names, as I'm in contact with Board officials, already, and I hope for this issue to being resolved soon.

Sadly, it speaks much, about state of decomposition, that "official" duties are overdoing through. I can't imagine doing sabotage for someone's community projects, due to personal reasons. Even less I can imagine accusing someone of attempted scam, motivated equally low.
---

Next time you try to accuse someone of stealing people's donations, just as act of pure revenge, due to your personal dislikes - without any proofs or even good reasons - think twice. It's completely off-line, for someone being Councilor, not to said about being Council's Chair. Thanks a lot for keeping things civilized.

/Estel

Last edited by Letsee; 2012-11-06 at 10:32.

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	woody14619	2012-11-06 , 20:32
	Posts: 1,455 \| Thanked: 3,309 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Rochester, NY	#158

Originally Posted by Letsee

It was done by abusive moderator, who got personal issue with me. No names, as I'm in contact with Board officials, already, and I hope for this issue to being resolved soon.

You do know it's against TMO rules to start a second account when you've been banned, right? If you have a grievance, there are proper channels to take (not the Board), as you should well know having been Council. Even if you personally feel it was unjust, by creating a second account you've shown disregard for the process here.

Disgraceful.

Originally Posted by Letsee

I would be extremely thankful, if you would not try to disgrace my projects

Originally Posted by Letsee

I can't imagine doing sabotage for someone's community projects,

I said nothing about the merit of your projects. I simply confirmed that you have been trying to raise funds from the community for personal tools for your projects. Anyone reading through your own comments on the aluminum back project thread can verify that.

FWIW: Community projects involve giving things back to the community, or delivering a product or service to the community. I take no issue with those asking for donations when they deliver such things. But to be clear, as there has been nothing delivered, months of inactivity, and the only person benefiting from anything done is you, I'm not seeing this as a "community" project.

Originally Posted by Letsee

Next time you try to accuse someone of stealing people's donations

Your words, not mine. I never accused you of stealing anyone's donations. I accused you of abusing the community for your personal gain. One example of that abuse would be the abusive language in the signature that's now gone. Another would be your abuse of Council e-mail in the first week you became Council, it to get parts from Maxim.

For those not in the know, Maxim gives free/discounted parts to NFP groups, "verified" mainly via a .org or .edu e-mail address. Estel used the Council e-mail address as "verification" for requests for motors, likely for his personal CNC device. What he oddly didn't expect was that they would e-mail a verification link, with the order details, to that address (and thus all of Council).

As this was the first week of Council, the rest of us admonished him for this stupid abuse. We made sure it was clear to him, despite his stance that this was perfectly fine for him to do, that we considered it unprofessional to do such things and it would not be tolerated again. This being the first of many infractions, there seemed no need to mention it to the community, so we simply moved on with the business of doing Council work.

As time moved on, the abuse became more systemic. Private admonishment by the rest of Council seemed to be ineffective. I began publicly admonishing him for his negative public behavior. His early rant in the community mailing list against MisterC, and his explosions in IRC with Joerg, for example. I figured a public admonishment may correct the behavior via community/peer pressure, and would let the community at large know that this was not something condoned by Council. In doing so, I was also admonish by Council for "airing dirty laundry", despite most of them agreeing with my underlying sentiment.

Moderator note: If anyone/moderators doubt that the above is factual, I would be happy to present proof that these incidents occurred. I have in my archives the e-mail from Maxim, complete with the order number and details which can be looked up on their order site for independent verification. I also have a full archive of the exchange just after that within Council on the topic (and many others). The community mailing list and IRC channels are already archived, so finding those incidents is a simple as searching their respective archives.

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Last edited by woody14619; 2012-11-06 at 20:37.

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	Texrat	2012-11-06 , 20:37
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#159

Don't bother replying any further-- if one of the supermoderators steps in, that account will be banned. And that sure didn't help Estel's case.

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	misterc	2012-11-07 , 20:36
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#160

Originally Posted by woody14619

[...]
It's not wonder I couldn't predict the future, what with my psychical abilities being negative.

try forecasting the past, maybe?!?

what really matters is that Estel has been banned.
it's a pity it had to come to that, but the way in which he meanwhile includes moderators to all the other conspirators (against... huh

) is just proof he won't learn.

one more guest on my ignore list...

EDIT: too late... already banned