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switch-hitter is offline switch-hitter
2013-08-06 , 07:30
Posts: 207 | Thanked: 552 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#1641
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
Let me remind you something that your memory doesnt serve you well. NOKIA board hired Elop because they clearly saw that Symbain was dead man walking. If Symbian was so great, how come NO ONE licenses it now,
Because Linux makes hardware integration easier. NOKIA were also planning an orderly migration from Symbian to Linux (MeeGo / Meltemi) using Qt as the bridge. Whose memory doesn't serve them well?


Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
The sign of great companies is when they notice the need for change long before it becomes catastrophic. NOKIA leadership didnt plan well, didnt execute well, and were lulled by the numbers you quote above. Anyone using Symbian devices in 2009/2010 knew that this was inferior OS, waiting to fall dead. All pre-Elop.
They did plan well even if they were tardy executing it. Pre-Elop NOKIA had an exciting future - MeeGo, Meltemi, QtQuick, Pyside, the best mapping software available, a rapidly expanding app store, strong brand recognition across the world, a strong market presence in China (now the world's biggest market) and China Mobile, the biggest carrier on the planet, were on the MeeGo working group. They were very close to getting all their ducks in a row, there was absolutely no need for panic reactions.

Announcing Symbian dead a full year before having anything to replace it with and then exclusively adopting a weak, unpopular, fugly OS were Elop's contributions and NOKIA's collapse is the inevitable consequence of it.

Plus of course he killed MeeGo (after calling it 'the next disruption'), he killed Meltemi thus destroying NOKIA's chances with 'the next billion', his catalogue of incompetence goes on and on and on...
 
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Kangal is offline Kangal
2013-08-06 , 09:05
Posts: 1,789 | Thanked: 1,699 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#1642
Originally Posted by uTMY View Post
Perhaps the difference is that you think of "desktop" as a device.

I think of "desktop" as a set of requirements.
If that's the case, the thing that qualifies as a "desktop" today seems to be a device that is easy for consumption (HD screen, loud speakers etc), is portable (under 18in?), and can last through a couple hours without continuous power source (battery dude)

Hence, the closest thing to a "modern desktop" would be a Win8 PRO tablet that can dock for a keyboard and power. Top example would be the Lenovo Helix. It has "Desktop Apps" as well as the basis to do future desktop "stuff".

WinRT is a no-go. I don't mean to knock it down, Microsoft has really been clearing bugs.

#rant
But the SurfaceRT wa- IS a bad product. That kickstand is a waste of space and weight. Corners are too sharp or is it the odd shape/size. Screen is lacking. Tegra3 seriously? They should've gone with at least a Dualcore S4 (same performance, better efficiency)... or a Exynos 5xxx (A15 powaa). MS has tripped itself again #rant

This results in a glacial market share of RT, means its not producing interest for developers and "future desktop stuff" at a competitive level.
It basically means MS wasted its effort, money, time to fix up RT the last year. It could've improved it at a slower pace, and it wouldn't affected its "ecosystem health". Currently, its possible for it to even die as a platform.

If RT does get traction.
If more powerful ARM SoC's are supported.
If MS squishes more bugs, adds missing features.
...then Yes, a WinRT hybrid can displace a Win8PRO hybrid as a desktop.

Then the definition of "dektop" can change.
We might have true-dektop grade software in a more device that's more portable, lasts longer and performs much faster.

Until then the iPad is a glorified consumption device.
Android needs another generation leap (or two!) to even begin to cater.
And a gaping hole in for a Linux ecosystem for "todays desktop" is ever increasing.
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Originally Posted by mscion View Post
I vote that Kangal replace Elop!
The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to mscion For This Useful Post

I'm flattered
 
uTMY is offline uTMY
2013-08-06 , 09:28
Posts: 131 | Thanked: 62 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#1643
@Switch

Indeed.

@Lumiaman

"If Symbian was so great, how come NO ONE licenses it now"

Really????

Are you seriously trying to suggest that you don't understand why a company whose CEO announces the END OF LIFE of a product to everyone and then stops selling it ... er DUH! .... isn't selling it to anyone?

And in that vacuum while Nokia had NO product to ship, you are surprised that end users would choose available feature rich products like Android and IOS rather than wait for a Microsoft product from two companies that have a proven track record of not supporting their products?

Words like "revisionist" and "delusional" spring to mind ....

@Kangal

RT is even acknowledged in Microsofts own SEC report that it is DOA (Dead on Arrival)

http://www.informationweek.com/globa...flop/240159201

Where have you been the last 3 months?

rgds
Last edited by uTMY; 2013-08-06 at 09:44.
 
juiceme is offline juiceme
2013-08-06 , 09:31
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#1644
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
Let me remind you something that your memory doesnt serve you well. NOKIA board hired Elop because they clearly saw that Symbain was dead man walking. If Symbian was so great, how come NO ONE licenses it now, and how come in 2009, Samsung announced that they dropping Symbian, followed by a whole slew of other manufacturers that they are dropping the great Symbian platform by the fall of 2010?????

The sign of great companies is when they notice the need for change long before it becomes catastrophic. NOKIA leadership didnt plan well, didnt execute well, and were lulled by the numbers you quote above. Anyone using Symbian devices in 2009/2010 knew that this was inferior OS, waiting to fall dead. All pre-Elop.
Actually, there were few options that the board considered when looking for the CEO candidate. The main contestants in the game were mr. Elop who came from outside the company and mr. Vanjoki who came from inside.

Both candidates outlined their plans for future of the company;

Mr. Vanjoki had the following agenda:
  • Let's develop future based on our existing strengths, use the migration path from Symbian to Meego. Current product lineup is falling but we have time to fix this if we pull together.
  • On short term this will create additional costs but on long term the cost-effectiveness of being in control of our OS will even out

Mr. Elop had the following agenda:
  • Let's outsource our OS development to a partner company, this will immediately make 3500 SW developers redundant and enable huge savings now
  • I've got good relations to MS, I can negotiate a contract that gives us very good terms on OS licencing

Now imagine that the board members are NOT competent on the engineering aspects, they have NO background on SW development. Their main competence is on finance and so when presented with these options the choice is clear --> go for the option which seems lucrative and produces immediate gratification.
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2013-08-06 , 09:49
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#1645
Nobody has even bothered to mention that an important part of 'desktop' systems is the architecture. Desktop systems tend to be able to run on far more horsepower with far more addressable memory space and they tend to be expandable and based on the idea of components (i.e. the screen isn't part of the system, the hard drive is replaceable, memory is often upgradeable and there are video card slots and expansion card slots and a plethora of ports). A "desktop" and "laptop" computer is still considered the workhorse of micro computing whereas cellphones and tablets are mainly based around portable communications and lightweight computing tasks (i.e. mobile apps versus full blown desktop applications, USB for peripherals if you're lucky, etc).

No, again... NOBODY is going to mistake cellphones and tablets for desktops. It's unlikely they'll ever be mistaken for desktops--maybe netbooks/notepads/laptops, but certainly not desktops so long as they're designed around mobility and lack the architecture that desktop have.
__________________
Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
Lumiaman
2013-08-06 , 10:39
Guest | Posts: n/a | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on
#1646
Originally Posted by uTMY View Post
@Switch

Indeed.

@Lumiaman

"If Symbian was so great, how come NO ONE licenses it now"

Really????

Are you seriously trying to suggest that you don't understand why a company whose CEO announces the END OF LIFE of a product to everyone and then stops selling it ... er DUH! .... isn't selling it to anyone?

And in that vacuum while Nokia had NO product to ship, you are surprised that end users would choose available feature rich products like Android and IOS rather than wait for a Microsoft product from two companies that have a proven track record of not supporting their products?

Words like "revisionist" and "delusional" spring to mind ....

@Kangal

RT is even acknowledged in Microsofts own SEC report that it is DOA (Dead on Arrival)

http://www.informationweek.com/globa...flop/240159201

Where have you been the last 3 months?

rgds
I guess you are being a revisionist and check the dates. Major companies announced abandoning Symbian prior to Elop arrival. Just google it, I know you can do it. Samsung did it in 2009. Stop acting stupid.
 
Lumiaman
2013-08-06 , 10:41
Guest | Posts: n/a | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on
#1647
Originally Posted by juiceme View Post
Actually, there were few options that the board considered when looking for the CEO candidate. The main contestants in the game were mr. Elop who came from outside the company and mr. Vanjoki who came from inside.

Both candidates outlined their plans for future of the company;

Mr. Vanjoki had the following agenda:
  • Let's develop future based on our existing strengths, use the migration path from Symbian to Meego. Current product lineup is falling but we have time to fix this if we pull together.
  • On short term this will create additional costs but on long term the cost-effectiveness of being in control of our OS will even out

Mr. Elop had the following agenda:
  • Let's outsource our OS development to a partner company, this will immediately make 3500 SW developers redundant and enable huge savings now
  • I've got good relations to MS, I can negotiate a contract that gives us very good terms on OS licencing

Now imagine that the board members are NOT competent on the engineering aspects, they have NO background on SW development. Their main competence is on finance and so when presented with these options the choice is clear --> go for the option which seems lucrative and produces immediate gratification.
The board members are usually highly accomplished individuals who probably carried iPhones and androids in their pockets and wanted Nokia to abandon dinosaur platforms. They chose correctly. The only thing that is growing are lumias
 
Lumiaman
2013-08-06 , 10:48
Guest | Posts: n/a | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on
#1648
Originally Posted by switch-hitter View Post
Because Linux makes hardware integration easier. NOKIA were also planning an orderly migration from Symbian to Linux (MeeGo / Meltemi) using Qt as the bridge. Whose memory doesn't serve them well?


They did plan well even if they were tardy executing it. Pre-Elop NOKIA had an exciting future - MeeGo, Meltemi, QtQuick, Pyside, the best mapping software available, a rapidly expanding app store, strong brand recognition across the world, a strong market presence in China (now the world's biggest market) and China Mobile, the biggest carrier on the planet, were on the MeeGo working group. They were very close to getting all their ducks in a row, there was absolutely no need for panic reactions.

Announcing Symbian dead a full year before having anything to replace it with and then exclusively adopting a weak, unpopular, fugly OS were Elop's contributions and NOKIA's collapse is the inevitable consequence of it.

Plus of course he killed MeeGo (after calling it 'the next disruption'), he killed Meltemi thus destroying NOKIA's chances with 'the next billion', his catalogue of incompetence goes on and on and on...

Have you ever heard someone telling you to focus on one thing well and do it well? Pre-Elop Nokia was unfocused with too many OSs, and to little attention to good software solutions. That is what drove iOS and android ahead. Complete focus on one OS and good execution. Nokia had interesting plans with too many OSs and little focus. That soekked disaster in inferior products such as n9, n8 and n900. The concepts were good, but the OS were just not well baked. Elop had to restructure them into a completely different company.
 
uTMY is offline uTMY
2013-08-06 , 11:20
Posts: 131 | Thanked: 62 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#1649
@Lumiaman

Nokia announced in SEPT 2010 the appointment of an ex MICROSOFT director to CEO.

Instead of the internal one who supported QT, Symbian, Maemo/Meego etc.

DEC 2010 mainstream companies deploying Symbian announce they will stop supporting it!

Hmmm .... coincidence?

Are you really saying that the strategists from some of the best tech industries on the planet wouldn't be able to spot what was coming next?

They didn't jump ship because Symbian was dying, they jumped ship becuase the 8th largest shareholder from Microsoft was appointed to Nokia CEO and it was obvious he was always going to choose the Windows platform.

rgds
Last edited by uTMY; 2013-08-06 at 11:50.
 
juiceme is offline juiceme
2013-08-06 , 11:39
Community Council | Posts: 4,920 | Thanked: 12,867 times | Joined on May 2012 @ Southerrn Finland
#1650
Originally Posted by Lumiaman View Post
The board members are usually highly accomplished individuals who probably carried iPhones and androids in their pockets and wanted Nokia to abandon dinosaur platforms. They chose correctly. The only thing that is growing are lumias
Ecxactly. When the decision on next CEO was made, technical merit was not considered, only short-term financial viability. Whether the decision was correct or not can be debated.
 
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