While this may not be a very popular idea, I was actually thinking along these lines too. If nothing else, it gets the forum up and moving, because we're drawing a distinction between user related stuff (unresolved issues here) and development stuff (for contributors of the project, to move things forward. I reckon this ought to be the priority for now?). By separating these, we can move forward with development at least, because right now it seems unnecessary to be getting stuck on issues surrounding end users when the first meego device is still many months off. And as stated, we’re going nowhere quickly in the ‘user’ department!

With regards to the user part of the forum, I think Texrat made an excellent point (#155). I still think we need to consider the purpose of talk.meego (in particular the end-user section), what it aims to do. For example, thinking out loud, we could remove ‘end user tech support’ role from the equation and instead consider the user section of the forum as (i) feedback and testing from users (ii) a vehicle to push advancements made in the development section to the community of power users (iii) a resource for hackers/developers to interact with a community of power users. This would provide a symbiotic relationship between hardcore developers and a manageable community of power users, and would provide a concrete and tangible benefit to the project. At the same time, the scope of the forum can be more clearly defined (as in, it concentrates on the meego platform, as opposed to ‘everything meego’ which would encompass support of individual meego devices). This would minimise the noise from novice users’ questions and wouldn’t require the massive forum structure which might otherwise be needed for ‘all devices, all users’. For tech support, manufacturers ought to take on the responsibility, as they are widely expected to and probably prepared to do (for example, if your average consumer has a problem with the software on their new symbian phone, they will seek advice from the network or manufacturer of the handset, they are unlikely to go and track down symbian and post something to the developer community. Maybe this is technically the correct course of action if it is a problem with Symbian, but it is not done because this doesn’t make sense to the user!). This is where I think meego forums shouldn’t become the next tmo, and should serve a different purpose from the off.

Like I said anyway, this is all just thinking out loud and I’m very much expecting large holes to be found in my logic!

Edit: my bad! I'm a bit behind, having only just caught up with the meego-community mailing list. Sorry some of whats above isn't really necessary! Anyone not familiar can catch up here

What I would like to see is a better for development compared with the one here in maemo.org. Currently there is only one section called Development and the description for it is:

So theory it's not a place to ask something like "how do I access the the camera with Qt". Currently this should probably done in Forum Nokia. But especially the Maemo section is rather quiet compared to maemo.org. Yes, there is a dev mailing list, but I personally prefer forums.

I would like very much like to see better support for devs in MeeGo forum. I also think the development sections should be divided by framework and language. For example:

-Development
--Qt
---C++
---Python

Yet at the same time, I'm don't wont to see it become a devs only forum. That would most likely lead to plenty of apps with ingenious code, but with useless UI. I think devs need feedback from end-users and a forum is a really good place to get that.

However, I don't like the fact that here we have only one section called Applications (and Games) which has threads about apps available in Extras mixed with all kind of other threads ranging from app requests to complaints about the inbuilt apps of N900. What I have seen in some other forums is that there is a separate section for all the apps and if some app proves popular (read: the thread becomes really long), it will get it's own subsection. I think this would be a great idea to implement in MeeGo forum.

In other words, I think a better support for devs would be great, but at the same time non-devs community members should not be forgotten.

If we agree with the idea of starting from scratch, then we can agree also with the idea of starting new subforums based on real needs at the time.

Imagine we would start today. The setting could be:

- General
- Community (substituting the mailing list?)
- Development

More on request. If such requests would come with a concrete purpose, scope and 2 moderators identified then such forum could start soon and grow fast.

The limits would not be put by a predefined scope but on real interest coming with real commitment to keep some quality standards.

Under this premise we could be proactive with Nokia, LG and whoever else shipping MeeGo devices to see if they are happy getting related forums under this umbrella. Ideally they would provide the moderators or people acting as gateways with their own organizations.

If you look at this from a competitive standpoint, you limit the impact of other forums (if that's what you want to do) by offering a superior experience to the target group (which at this point seems unclear "developers" "end users" etc).

It's not necessarily the device vendors, operators, and private businesses that decide how many forums are out there. It's the users of the forums that decide, the community members that give their vote of confidence to the various forums. With a massive amount of members the forum gains critical mass and it ends up being the natural place to start, because you know that's where the action is.

I believe that by being FIRST meego.com has a unique first-mover advantage over ANY other meego-related forum. Furthermore meego.com has a potential advantage over any other forum in that Nokia and Intel are both involved in the site.

If I were an executive at either of these companies, and certainly if I were a sales and marketing executive, I would get involved in meego.com and I would make sure I get the end users' attention, interest, approval, engagement, loyalty, buzz, and involvement in the forum, because ultimately it would lead to business. I would realize that I had a unique, but temporary, advantage here to create THE premier on-line meego community.

I came to this forum from WinMo and mainly the on-line forum called XDA-developers (hasn't been mentioned here; at least it didn't show up in my search). Yes I've frequented other forums, blogs, review sites etc, but I always came back to XDA, simply because it was the largest community that attracted the biggest amount of members, generated the greatest threads and had the sharpest developers.

For those of you unfamiliar with that community, it's got close to 2.2 million registered users, up by roughly 200.000 since december 2009 (!). There are 5-6 thousand people on line at any one point in time.

That site started out as an HTC/Windows Mobile developer driven community but evolved into a mix of user and developer forum. With the launch of HTC Android devices XDA opened up to this OS as well. A few weeks ago, due to popular demand, it opened up to other brand manufactured devices, besides HTC.

I think it would be a mistake by Nokia/Intel to make Meego.com a developer centric community exclusively and forego the opportunity and power residing in the end users.

Surely the issues of how to structure the forum, the number of sub forums, forums for other classes of meego devices and other brand manufacturers can be resolved.

Here's a link to XDA developers newly designed entrance. Nice color choice btw: www.xda-developers.com

and to the forum:

http://forum.xda-developers.com/

This is a step in the right direction. And yes, substitute the mailing list.

Looking at the http://www.1src.com/forums/ site which he refers to (I didn't know Reggie was behind that well-respected site until now!), it looks like there is a sub-forum for each device within the 1src forums structure. I think this is a good model.

Please, please let it be vBulletin and nothing else. :P

My suggestion for Forum areas:
- end-users (newcomers, power users)
- community (community members, contributors, council)
- developers
- builders (vendors, hobbyist) [new with MeeGo]

I differentiate only these 4 on the highest level due to their different interest in coming to MeeGo:
E: use, get answers (Q&A, FAQ), learn
C: discuss, contribute
D: develop, distribute
B: build MeeGo devices

I think the high noise ratio on TMO is due to the fact, that there is no focused attempt to serve end-users for their typical need. TMO itself was a step to provide a place for community besides developers. My opinion is that there is no need to drastically change what has evolved previously - just add end-user focus and builder focus.

I agree with starting from scratch and starting with high-level grouping only.

I think spinoffs will happen later (e.g. end-user Q&A could be better in structured form instead of forum, community functions like brainstorm etc.) and sub-forums can spawn when there is need.

Well, I am not going to make any big fuzz about it either, but you quietly lost me. Single sign on or no sign on. I am not going to sign up to a mailing list (ever again, any more than I'm going to dial up a BBS ever again), and I'm not going to sign up on another forum when it should not have been necessary. I know I don't count for much as I do not contribute much. So, no fuzz, no loss, but also no involvement.

I would miss the bears.

Cheers qgil, that looks like an excellent idea and seems the way forward. And please yes, replace the mailing list with the forum.. I can only speak for myself but i'm not having much fun keeping up with both!

Gadgety, good call on bringing up xda-dev, I was thinking about doing the same thing. If talk.meego really does target all users of all meego devices, I think a lot could be learned from there and adopting the device specific subforum idea which Reggie and Millhouse mentioned. Its not without its flaws (e.g. some projects developed over at xda start for only one device and then users of other devices get linked across to the other forums, there is a lot of noise too) but still is by and large a usable and productive place despite its huge number of users. But for the time being, I think qgil has hit the nail on the head and we should focus on what is productive for now and consider structure (of say, device/vendor specific subfora) when the need arises for it.

Only thing I would add to qgils sections; a mechanism by which new forums can be proposed or structure/direction discussed. I guess maybe this comes under community in the list? Ought to have an explicit presence there anyway IMHO, if only a sticky!