Well, maybe not so much that as there's not a whole lot of resounding enthusiasm for what's guaranteed to be a difficult if not impossible task without a lot of clear short-term or long-term benefit.

I can understand that. But stubborn me, I'll still take one shot at the windmill before giving up.

YoDude was referring to "paid" staff. If this link answers his comment, where does the Wiki specify who is paid?

If they work for maemo.org, they're paid. But that page could be clearer. The council should be more clearly separated. Another action item...

Ah, and there is the rub…

There are those that can and will. These are the people we all have the most respect for.
We will call them group “A”.

There are those who can’t and won’t. Perhaps the people you consider as not being members.
We will call them group “B”.

Then there are those who can't but will.
We can call them group “C”.

And finally group “D”, those that can but won’t.

I think we can all agree that people in the last group are no use to any one and are usually just malcontents. Malcontents can do a lot of damage to an organization. I don't think anyone would have a problem if this type of person is ignored or encouraged to move on.

~

I was afraid that this would revert back to some of the same ‘ol SSO stuff and that's a shame because by now it is only so much water under the bridge. From what I have seen, a lot of effort has gone into making it easier on new members and the thing that is most impressive is the importance the MeeGo group appears to be putting into the SSO issue... So again I 'm left wondering what the purpose was in ripping the scab off that old wound.

The beginning of my involvement here was when the N800 was first released. A that time, a new member of maemo.org had to create I believe, 3 separate accounts if he or she wanted to fully participate. The original M/O account, a garage account, and a Bugzilla account.

From what I saw, the forums were privately owned then and not considered part of M/O at the time. I think that what I am reading in your response is that although the owner of the forums may have been considered part of the community, forum members not so much, especially if they had not joined M/O.
I never thought that the multiple sign-on requirements were the result of an unfortunate accident of fate or an unforeseen dilemma due to the rapid growth of M/O or whatnot. I thought it was by design, pure and simple. But, I must add I don’t think I ever heard anyone who would know, say that.

[PARAPHRASE] As I recall the opening page of M/O's site at the time even stated it. The separate accounts delineated different membership "levels". With a regular account you could "feel a part of the dynamic force that is Maemo" or some such. I even think I found Internet Tablet Talk from a link that was provided on that page so that I could "chat with fellow enthusiasts about your new device".
If you were a creator of a Linux application and were curious to see how it performed on Maemo then you were encouraged to join the garage where the fellows in there all had their sleeves rolled up and lent a helping hand in support of one another’s efforts.
And if you were really the bee's knees and where interested in putting this exciting new operating system to the test, you were encouraged to create a Bugzilla account. [/PARAPHRASE]

~

The real issue as I see it isn't what happened then or what may happen in the future, it is what should be happening now.
Do you think the MeeGo group intends to build devices only for the fellows hanging out in the garage or who are only interested in testing the dang things?

I would think the hope (and forecast) is that a new market will emerge as more and more people become better educated in what a mobile device, or the OS on pervasive remote devices can do, and what it means to them and their future.

What needs to happen now is for the people in Group "A" to realize that the people in Group "B" are their future.

Group "A" can make this future happen by turning the can't and wont's into fellow can and will's.

The people in group "B" are not in group "A" because of sloth or lack of desire. They showed up here didn't they? They didn't choose not to be in group "A"... If they could, they would. That is their desire.

The most valuable choice they did make for this organization was to choose not to be in group "C"... They could but they didn't.

This choice that group “B’ made is good for all because the people in group “C”, the people who can’t but will, usually end up costing an organization the most. They are the ones most likely to spread FUD and they are more likely to break things that require an organization’s limited resources to fix. When they are engaged, they are not fully engaged. They are also more likely to expect some sort of compensation for their good intentions. Because of this, if they ever do become someone that can, they probably won’t.

If you identify with the people in group “A” and you do not see the value of the members in group “B” then perhaps you really belong in group “D”.



Right now I look at the iPhone and I see AOL.

Old pages that I already said that could be removed when maemo.org got the new homepage design. A design that was driven entirely by a community team.

The Maemo community has no legal entity on its own. It's a group of individuals. In order to transfer a domain you need a real individual or organzation to transfer it. At the moment it looks like Nokia is still the best option but if you have better alternatives we can discuss them.

Beyond the domain ownership, Nokia doesn't give orders to the council or even to the maemo.org staff paid with Nokia budget.

"I suggest we start lobbying to free up the maemo.org trademark.", Texrat says.

This sentence needs clarification since currently there is no such "maemo.org trademark". maemo.org is part of the Maemo trademark owned by Nokia. The maemo.org logo was designed and seleted in a communty contest and it has a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 License.

What does Texrat's proposal mean in practice? What is the freedom sought with this proposal?

And in general, what proposal pushed by the Maemo community affecting maemo.org has been stopped by Nokia? Guys, you are really steering this boat. We at Nokia help when/where it makes sense to complement your efforts.

The *master positions are paid, the council ones aren't ;-)

Though I just noticed that Karsten (the other bugmaster, not so visible lately as he's been busy behing the scenes with the bugzilla upgrade and perhaps some other stuff) is missing from the list.

I was allowing for some imprecise language by Texrat. The trademarks should remain with Nokia. It's the domain and website that are important to the community.

The most apparent solution is to create a simple non-profit organization, and then Nokia could transfer or do a long-term lease of the domain name to that or something similar. The freedom sought is to ensure that the website can always continue without any contingencies, including permission of Nokia. It would also simplify things like distribution of Diablo SSU without risk of liability to Nokia. It's recognized that Nokia has helped, and continues to help. It would just be good to get a nod before organizing, and to see if Reggie has something to say about it.

I should have used "identity" instead of "trademark", sorry. The logo may be under community auspices, but there's still some fuzziness in the middle between maemo.org and Maemo. Let me have some coffee and I'll try to remember what I was getting at before...

(SD69 is in the ballpark-- not just identity as in logo but any other assets that can be released)

He's actually working for Nokia. He's only been out helping with the 3.4 upgrade recently.