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cBeam is offline cBeam
2011-06-06 , 21:34
Posts: 139 | Thanked: 224 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ San Francisco, CA
#161
Originally Posted by mrsellout View Post
One result of this is the Osbourne effect. The Guardian discussed it here today.
Good article. I have two questions:
1. When will Nokia replace the current CEO
2. Will it be already too late?
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-06-06 , 21:50
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#162
Originally Posted by cBeam View Post
Good article. I have two questions:
1. When will Nokia replace the current CEO
2. Will it be already too late?
Dude! Nokia only JUST got him! They're still paying just the interest on that loan! I suspect that if it isn't too late, that window is very, very rapidly closing. I could imagine how it might turn around very quickly, but it's highly unlikely that business executives, who are getting paid handsomely in any circumstance, are going to be willing to do anything that might make them look foolish or admit they had been wrong, even when they're finally doing the right things now. What I'm saying is, despite all this talk about how they're a Finnish company and how the Finns are very humble and their corporate culture is so very different--when it comes down to it, they operate just like every other company in the world. I dare them to be different and prove me wrong but, disappointingly, I'm sure I won't be.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Last edited by danramos; 2011-06-06 at 21:53.
 

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lohner is offline lohner
2011-06-06 , 22:43
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#163
Originally Posted by cBeam View Post
1. When will Nokia replace the current CEO
2. Will it be already too late?
ad 1) Not before Microsoft replaces Ballmer (not one game changing innovation from this company, just playing catch up over the last years, but doing this still better than Nokia nonetheless)
ad 2) Probably, for both companies
 

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cBeam is offline cBeam
2011-06-06 , 23:20
Posts: 139 | Thanked: 224 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ San Francisco, CA
#164
Originally Posted by lohner View Post
ad 1) Not before Microsoft replaces Ballmer (not one game changing innovation from this company, just playing catch up over the last years, but doing this still better than Nokia nonetheless)
ad 2) Probably, for both companies
re 1: I give Ballmer more slack because at least he keeps MS stable and profitable.

Elop on the other hand was brought in to turn around Nokia's fortunes. And, well, he singlehandedly destroyed 40% of Nokia's value within the last 5 months. Good job, indeed.

That's, by the way, cBeam's "oh s**t" moment for Elop.
 

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nuknuk is offline nuknuk
2011-06-06 , 23:23
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#165
we are all waiting for nokia
and
they
are
a joke.
msgend
 
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volt is offline volt
2011-06-07 , 01:19
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#166
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
Why, because Symbian has been around for a long time, but let's not ignore the facts of the situation.

Before Elop the plan for MeeGo and S^3/4 was QT. That was the new ecosystem. You think write once and run anywhere is easy? Ask Sun how that worked out for them. There is no way an ecosystem that still in the development stages could possibly be more advanced than Android / iOS who are firmly in the market.

Where QT goes is still TBD but the challenge for Nokia was, not only are they building two operating systems but also an additional abstraction layer for apps on top of both. I think it was just too much for them to handle given the competitive landscape. They couldn't develop it fast enough.
Well, first of all, Qt is anything but new. It's an existing, cross platform... platform... developed by Qt Software / Trolltech.There's no challenges in cross platform that Qt hasn't already lived with since the dawn of the IT era (1994, to be more precise). They were bought up by Nokia 2008/2009 and since then Qt has been adapted by Nokia. Till just now. We do know where they're going now, though - Nokia is dividing it up; "Nokia said it would sell the commercial licensing business of Qt to Digia PLC on March 2011".

The Qt strategy was a good one. However, they pulled the plug before they even started to sell the idea to Symbian or multiplatform developers, so it never got tested in real life. I doubt that the Qt strategy would/could have done anything good about the inherited flaws in Symbian, but it would do very much for the applications on top of Symbian (and thus, MeeGo).

Second, there's a whole lot to be said about Sun/Java's implementation of "cross platform". That does not mean that everybody else would take the same route of cross platform not being cross platform at all.

The "Write once and run anywhere" strategy has made Windows the most used operating systems throughout time. Some applications from MS DOS will still work with Windows 7, applications will work across virtualbox on cell phones, servers, tablets, tabletPCs, netbooks, pretty much any computer made after the given software were created. Oh, and while Sun may have stumbled, Android is nothing but a virtualization motor made in a rip-off copy of Java. So, I think the whole Write once and run anywhere strategy can work very well, thank you vely mush.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-06-07 , 02:50
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#167
Originally Posted by volt View Post
The "Write once and run anywhere" strategy has made Windows the most used operating systems throughout time. Some applications from MS DOS will still work with Windows 7, applications will work across virtualbox on cell phones, servers, tablets, tabletPCs, netbooks, pretty much any computer made after the given software were created. Oh, and while Sun may have stumbled, Android is nothing but a virtualization motor made in a rip-off copy of Java. So, I think the whole Write once and run anywhere strategy can work very well, thank you vely mush.
I don't think you understand what "write once, run anywhere" means. :P You appear to be confusing that with "backwards compatibility". The idea that Java was trying to promote was LITERALLY the idea of writing an application on any type of OS or architecture, then running that software on any other type of OS or architecture--even in its own era, even without hardware emulation. I dare you to show me a DOS program running on your N900 without a whole emulated BIOS with an emulated PC environment (like DOSbox, bochs, or VMware). Java CAN be made to run on your N900 using a far simpler vm that runs closer to the OS without the need to emulate a whole other architecture down to the BIOS and hardware.

You further neglected to notice that many older Windows apps can't actually run in newer Windows operating systems without some sort of emulated legacy support. i.e. newer apps take advantage of newer API/architectures, while older apps need to have specific legacy support in the newer Windows--which is why MANY apps written even for something as recent as Windows XP would NOT run in Windows Vista or Windows 7. Why do you think MANY companies refused to upgrade? They weren't being cheap--they were being compatible with the software they depend on.

I agree that "write once, run anywhere" is a great idea and a potentially successful way to operate--but as the two examples you gave (Sun with Java and Android with Dalvik) point out, there is more to success than simply that method alone. Support counted for a lot. Sun shunned many partners while Android welcomed everyone. Nokia has done far worse by shunning not only partners but also customers. To quote the movie Tropic Thunder, "You NEVER go full retahd."
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-06-07 , 02:52
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#168
Also, incredibly... I can't believe this board is censoring a perfectly normal, long lived and not even a dirty English word. :P
http://www.merriam-webster.com/d%69c...y/re%74%61r%64
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Last edited by danramos; 2011-06-07 at 02:54.
 
jo21 is offline jo21
2011-06-07 , 03:33
Posts: 572 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2011
#169
problem with strategy they killed symbian and they didnt test the water.

lets be honest HTC and samsung both have wp7 for a good time and their android siblings sell ALOT Better.
only reason the didnt test android too probably no one will buy wp7 version.


nokia dropping symbian for wp7 its like microsoft killing windows 7 for meego because android/iOS running the market.

regarless windows is a BAD OS, it have huge userbase that couldn't be ignore.
Last edited by jo21; 2011-06-07 at 03:58.
 

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geohsia is offline geohsia
2011-06-07 , 05:02
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#170
Originally Posted by volt View Post
Well, first of all, Qt is anything but new.
I'm not expert on QT but yes it's been around for a long time. Where is this mature / evolved / pervasive and all expansive ecosystem that has changed and revolutionized the industry. They haven't. I mean is there even an QT Store? From what I can see they're still trying to get it to work on MeeGo, Symbian and etc. Sure components exist but while Apple is moving on to iOS 5 and daily adding to the app store, where's QT?

I don't doubt much work and technical problems were solved with QT, but the unfortunate fact is after all these years it's a non-factor and without a QT store / ecosystem (more than just being around years ago) they are for all intents and purposes brand new.

This is the problem with Nokia the past few years. They dabbled in QT, but never really committed. They dabbled in Maemo / MeeGo but never really committed. Now they finally committed to WP7. Bad choice? Too late? Maybe, but the problem is that while Nokia had great technology never utilized it. So I doesn't really matter how long it's been around. Coulda / shoulda only works for geeks. Every day customers want to see the reality not past glory and bragging rights. of who was first.

The Qt strategy was a good one. However, they pulled the plug before they even started to sell the idea to Symbian or multiplatform developers, so it never got tested in real life.
Wait, I thought this was around for years, since 1994. Oh, so they never used it. So what good is technology if it's never used. So you are basically saying though it existed it was never used so for all intents and purposes it was NEW to the industry because it was never really out there.

Just because you warmed up and sat on the bench doesn't mean you were in the game. You can't blame Elop for Nokia's failures. At least he's trying to get in the game by joining the WP team. Promises and fanciful wishing don't win games.

I doubt that the Qt strategy would/could have done anything good about the inherited flaws in Symbian, but it would do very much for the applications on top of Symbian (and thus, MeeGo).
I subscribe to the KISS principle. QT, the one dev. platform to rule them all just was too complicated. With Symbian / MeeGo the big moving target, Nokia thought they'd succeed where Sun failed.

Years ago they had their chance. Too little too late now.

The "Write once and run anywhere" strategy has made Windows the most used operating systems throughout time. Some applications from MS DOS will still work with Windows 7,
backward compatibility is not cross platform

applications will work across virtualbox on cell phones, servers, tablets, tabletPCs, netbooks, pretty much any computer made after the given software were created.
Just because an old dos binary works in Windows 7 doesn't mean its cross platform. Look at what they had to do for XP to get XP based apps to work on Windows 7/ Vista. Show me the Dos application that runs on OSX and linux then have cross-platform.

Oh, and while Sun may have stumbled, Android is nothing but a virtualization motor made in a rip-off copy of Java.
Yes, Java but controlled without all of the problems spreading themselves out too across multiple VMs. I don't see an Android VM for iOS / Bada / WP7 / MeeGo.

So, I think the whole Write once and run anywhere strategy can work very well, thank you vely mush.
Nice try but no. Still have yet to see a credible example that is successful.
 

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