Statically linking obviously only works in some situations like for essentials like openssh which i might want to leave installer on mmc... or for some minor dependency which would not add much bloat. And god forbid people bundle python runtime with py files

But it would be nice additional option for any package... in case you want to burn your own cd of favorite apps or just leave them on mmc... maybe 1 year+ from now people running those 50 repos wont be hosting it anymore.

I'm glad to see this restarted, and it sounds like it's still going to be what Reggie originally intended, which I think, as Krisse pointed out, is good for the Tablets to start moving more towards consumers.

It sounds like Reggie was concerned (and rightfully so) about leaving developers out of the loop of where their app would end up, and it was made clear that if it's coming to ITT, they're cool with that, so long as it's no extra work on them.

Clearly there are still the logistics of setting it up, but I for one am glad to see a movement like this push through, to make the application 'environment' more friendly to consumers.

Sounds good to me, so long as the phrase "re-list (with no upload option) without developer involvement" doesn't imply that other users can start listing applications that aren't (and should be) listed in Maemo Downloads. That is, I hope it just means programmatic (automatic) re-listing, not allowing other users to list things that aren't listed in Maemo Downloads.

I mean, certain things may be allowable, like themes, links to Flash websites, or game levels, but in my opinion those sorts of software should only be listed on ITTSS if they are not allowed in Maemo Downloads. And it sounds like Reggie is in communication with the maemo.org folks to allow all this type of software anyway. Assuming maemo.org allows everything that we need, then ITTSS shouldn't need a separate listing mechanism.

If maemo.org is not so flexible, then the danger, of course, is that such a mechanism would open the possibility of people only listing their applications on ITTSS. This should be avoided, either by not adding such a mechanism in the first place or by adding a warning on the ITTSS listing page that strenuously suggests that the would-be lister consider listing their application on Maemo Downloads instead.

Reggie you have been inserted as a dependency to maemo os 2008 and as such we demand to see all your php code to attain gpl compliance (well for your stuff of course). Please maintain 99.999% availalability since everything else runs 88.888%. I myself would also like to burn itt onto a cd so if the interweb goes down i can see last years posts.

Krisse, no offense, but you're back to blurring the lines between garage and downloads.

Individually some of your points have merit, but I really think it helps this dialog to draw clear distinctions between developers/uploads and users/downloads.

I'm glad we've gotten (or are at least on track to get) this resolved. Thank you for your hard work!!!

For posterity: nobody has questioned that Reggie's proposal was pointing in the right direction, nor that ITt is a better place for end users than the developer oriented maemo.org. The question was how to avoid developers doing manual publishing twice and the risk of splitting the information in different places + the risk of having an easy upload feature in ITt deviating from the developer effort of having an integrated and quality aware process in maemo.org.

Syndication solves the first part and now we will work on the implementation.

About the 'easy uploads', it is understandable that in a first glance easy=better - however it is not always like this. The easiest is to give candy to children every time they ask for it and use them as a short term incentive to get other things done - but this will ruin their teeth and their motivation to understand why some things need to be done. Easy uploads out of the sight of the maemo community of developers favour at the end all kinds of system weaknesses and mid term bad user experiences. Main reasons provided in my previous posts here and some proofs in user complaints here and there having the root of the problem in app/applet X with a fancy frontend and an involuntarily harmful backend.

All we have learned something with this discussion.

The best way for everybody to propose improvements to maemo.org is http://bugs.maemo.org - product Website. Downloads has its own component and you can make your suggestions there. The right developer will pick it up and you will know in real time what is the progress, being able to discuss further details, vote and bug more.

There are currently eight open bugs of a total of 75 bugs submitted to the Downloads component.

Bugs and tasks like now the syndication thing are pushed through monthly sprints where Niels, Dave, Andre, Karsten, the Nemein and Nokia guys meet and decide what comes next. All this process is open and can be followed and actively influenced and supported via the maemo.org development wiki and mailing list.

I reckon all this is not well documented and publicitized (this is actually one of the tasks in the May sprint). At least now you see that there is no reason to think in Nokia alone planning and developing maemo.org features behind four walls. In fact today the maemo community has as much initiative and power to organize and implement things in the maemo.org website - but the majority of hasn't still realized that.

You can help, pointing to others in the right directions everythime you see complaint X about maemo.org and getting involved yourselves. The maemo.org Downloads discussion here is just one example on how you can help improving things.

I mentioned garage because a previous comment in the thread said something along the lines of "we've already got maemo.org and garage", and I was purely trying to say they're not aimed at end users.

I'm not sure what you mean by "back to blurring the lines", this is the only time I've mentioned garage as far as I can recall. Maybe you mean someone else?

I've read the last posts fast and I still need some coffee, so bear with me, please...

I think that uploading to Maemo Downloads and/or to ITT should take the same amount of time to developers.
So.. why not allow uploads here by merging the two upload pages ?
The one here and the one in Maemo Downloads.. either by poiting the ITT Upload page to maemo.org or create a new page in maemo.org (that would substitute the previous one) to somehow reflect the fact that the uploader is coming from either places.

What 'uploading' (I won't say 'here' or 'there' as it would be ONE place) means is a different matter.
It should create what it does right now in maemo.org (a package page, downloads stats, comments, install file and so on) ALONG with a ITT forum thread ALONG with something else (resources upload for example, bugzilla and so on).

Should we create a 'What is need ON Maemo.org" in the Syndication project wiki ?
I am thinking at least about Bugzilla.

As a side note, we could even merge garage here.