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mmlado is offline mmlado
2012-06-02 , 08:41
Posts: 193 | Thanked: 201 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Subotica, Serbia
#171
Originally Posted by Tofe View Post
But apart from that, I have another question: what is a "new" app, for this competition ? Never published on maemo.org / Nokia Store ? Coding begun this year ? I would say the first option seems reasonable, but maybe this rule is already written somewhere :-)
For last year competition, if I remember correctly, the work on the app had to be done during the competition start and end time. If the same rule is used, I assume, you have to start to work on a new app, when the competition begins.
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mrsellout is offline mrsellout
2012-06-02 , 08:44
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#172
Could such an application be uploaded to appsformeego? I mean is it possible to install using inception/open-mode whilst having the app on the a4m repository? If not, will we have to change the rule about uploading to the community repos?

I'm of the opinion that any application is ok, but developers must realise that if it's too difficult to install/test, then they might not bother.

Originally Posted by rainisto View Post
Well yes, its a matter of opinion, but I'm more asking that if apps must work on normal end users device or not, or is it allowed to post an application that doesn't work without all capa opensh?

Just asking because I have one unreleased application in my private drawer which doesn't work on normal devices. But I have no problems to keep it in my drawer for ever

In the other view of opinion for people to be able to vote fairly between applications, we shouldn't force people to hack their devices in order to test the app.

All I'm asking is a statement in the rules that does application need to work from out of box device just by installing the competition.deb
 

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mrsellout is offline mrsellout
2012-06-02 , 08:59
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#173
Originally Posted by Tofe View Post
Oh, and by the way: the twitter hashtag #mcc2012 seems to be already taken by some sort of US conference: http://www.mcc2012.org/
Another hashtag ?
#mcc12 has also gone

How about #mccIII or #mcc3
 

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qwazix is offline qwazix
2012-06-02 , 09:28
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#174
Or #mccXII
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rainisto is offline rainisto
2012-06-02 , 09:37
Posts: 1,067 | Thanked: 2,383 times | Joined on Jan 2012 @ Finland
#175
Originally Posted by mrsellout View Post
Could such an application be uploaded to appsformeego?
Yes, and this is second thing that I'm against, I like to devel apps using debian/rules and never to use OBS, tar.gz, .spec or _service files (or does community obs already support setting gitorious git url as src?), as those scare away normal app developers . So I would prefer to use gitorious for the repo and not to be forced to register into community OBS.
Last edited by rainisto; 2012-06-02 at 09:59.
 

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Elleo is offline Elleo
2012-06-02 , 09:58
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#176
Originally Posted by rainisto View Post
Yes, and this is second thing that I'm against, I like to devel apps using debian/rules and never to use OBS, .spec or _service files, as those scare away normal app developers . So I would prefer to use gitorious for the repo.
OBS doesn't require .spec or _service files for the Harmattan targets. You can simply upload a standard Debian .dsc and .tar.gz.
 

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rainisto is offline rainisto
2012-06-02 , 10:00
Posts: 1,067 | Thanked: 2,383 times | Joined on Jan 2012 @ Finland
#177
Originally Posted by Elleo View Post
OBS doesn't require .spec or _service files for the Harmattan targets. You can simply upload a standard Debian .dsc and .tar.gz.
Does community OBS support adding git url as src. So I wouldn't need to play with tar.gz files?

Edit: PS, ohwell maybe I'll ask mt username to be added to community OBS so I can test these things myself and not only ask questions....

Edit2: looks like community obs is missing tar_scm service, so git urls are not supported.
Last edited by rainisto; 2012-06-02 at 12:06.
 

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kojacker is offline kojacker
2012-06-02 , 17:20
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#178
Oh lots of questions.. I'll try answer as best I can..

Originally Posted by rainisto View Post
Yes aegis capa question, only allow unknown origin capas. Or entries that use capas that cannot be gained without abusing the system like unrestricted system-ui or led notification would need....
I really don't know a lot about this. I have prior love/hate relationship with Aegis. One of my first projects with the N950 was a sms pet feeder (don't hate me, I'm into physical computing) where the app, running on the N950, would process an incoming SMS message and if it found the trigger word would turn on a DIY pet feeder via arduino over Bluetooth. The idea is I can feed the dogs when im late from work. Those of you who followed my project at the start of the year will know I spent a week of my life thumping my head of a wall because I didnt have the Aegis TrackerReadAccess token right. So anything that abuses Aegis gets a virtual thumbs up from me

However, your question was in regards to what is acceptable for this competition. Which leads me onto the following ...

Originally Posted by itsnotabigtruck View Post
What is and isn't "abuse" is entirely a matter of opinion. Entries should be able to use any and all capabilities necessary if it makes for a more groundbreaking app.
I admire your pioneering spirit itsnotabigtruck, but it's not strictly true that we'll accept anything into the competition. We're pretty liberal in most areas, and we don't take moral issues with things like emulators etc. We want to accept most stuff into the competition because we want to recognise all development out there in the community, and we understand that most of the cool stuff pushes the boundaries sometimes. However, we can't just accept anything. Here's the thought process:
  • Any application that contains illegal content, is a virus, or has a malicious intent is out. I'm sure few of us will disagree with that.
  • Similarly, there are copyright issues the application needs to adhere to. For example, we can accept emulator submissions but not ones that are bundled with a commercial ROM. That keeps our noses clean.
  • Will your application invalid warranty? This is probably not a worry for most N900 owners, but may be for N9 owners. We are all adults here and can decide what applications we will or will not install on our devices. Such applications can be submitted, but must be accompanied with a note or warning that it will/possibly invalidate the warranty. This will be placed in the application description so that all users are aware of this risk before trying the application out.
  • Similarly, is there a chance your application will brick the device? If so, this also needs to be made clear to us so we can pass that information on to the users/testers.
  • The above points about warranty and bricking may seem a little heavy handed. We know from experience that users will install things without going to the applications TMO discussion thread or googling for more information about it. You have to remember we have users of varying experience and technical skills in our community, and the competition is for everyone. We need to make these risks clear.
  • Your application should be straightforward to install, and should be straightforward to remove. There should be reasonably defined steps for installation and removal, and it should remove cleanly from the device. Let us remember you for the right reasons, not cos you clogged up our Opt folders with stuff left behind that we have to manually remove by hand..
  • We're expecting your application to be well tested before it's submitted, so you're confident it does what it's supposed to do, it matches with the description, and there's no nasty surprises for the users. There will be time after submission for fairly minor bug fixes, however new functionality after the close of submission will not be accepted for the competition. If the application is just a train wreck and won't run then obviously we'll not include it in the competition.

That's all I think of off the top of my head. I understand that within the above points there will be grey areas, there always are, but I hope I've conveyed the spirit of what is acceptable. Most of it is common sense. We'll try to include everything we can and let the community decide what is most valuable to them. We want to showcase the talent out there and rewards developers who have given so much to the community. In return, we ask that submissions are legal, safe, and as risk free to our users as possible. It's tricky to be absolute on generalities, so we can work with developers on clearing up specific issues if/when the case arises during the competition.

I have no idea what the post limit is for characters, i must be nearly hitting it.. I'll grab a new post for the next bunch of stuff
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kojacker is offline kojacker
2012-06-02 , 17:38
Posts: 1,086 | Thanked: 2,964 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#179
The timeframe and deadline aren't set yet, as soon as we have the structure of the competition finalised and the site ready, we'll start immediately. Watch this space.

Originally Posted by zehjotkah View Post
I already asked kojacker to take over the "moderator role".

"I'll take it, till I get killed or you find someone better."

The only problem is now I can't enter and have a chance to win a N9/50 like everyone else! Grrr!
Originally Posted by Tofe View Post
Like Estel, i would drop "significant updates to existing applications" too, IMHO.
OK, but that might not go down well with a lot of developers who like to concentrate on their existing projects. It might mean a lower turn out of applications for the competition, and less incentive for existing projects to be completed. I'm kinda torn on it to be honest.

Originally Posted by Tofe
For the ports, it's quite difficult to have an opinion, as the work required can vary a lot - porting a Qt app can be desperately easy in some cases, and require a lot of rewrite in other cases, for example.
I would agree with this. Ports can be a right royal pain, nobody really likes to do them. It can mean the developer needs a lot of knowlege on both systems and has to trawl through someone else's code - and us developers know how "teeth pullingly" dreadful it can be to decipher anyone elses code We've had ports in the past that are really appreciated, and indeed prize winners, so I'd be inclined to include them. In case there's any confusion, what we ask the users to judge is the work included in porting. Not the actual application itself that is ported. This can be tricky because some voters may have a problem in differentiating the application they see running from the work it took to get it to run, but we try to point this out as best as we can.

Originally Posted by Tofe
But apart from that, I have another question: what is a "new" app, for this competition ? Never published on maemo.org / Nokia Store ? Coding begun this year ? I would say the first option seems reasonable, but maybe this rule is already written somewhere :-)
mmlado has you covered

Originally Posted by mmlado View Post
For last year competition, if I remember correctly, the work on the app had to be done during the competition start and end time. If the same rule is used, I assume, you have to start to work on a new app, when the competition begins.
100% spot on mmlado, that's the idea

In regards to hash tag
Originally Posted by qwazix View Post
Or #mccXII
I really like this one, is it ok with everyone?

By the way, I should take this moment to thank qwazix again for the competition banner. I see it's now been placed on the top right of the page, Im not sure who asked for that but thanks to them too! And thanks for Reggie for sticking it up there. It looks really well I think

Just for fun, let's have a look back at the previous banners

This was the first banner that related back to when the original competition was just a weekend thing I dreamed up.. and no expense was spared "to create the following soul stirring poster."



With the support of the community and Nokia onboard the competition quickly turned from a weekend 'lark' into a more professional competition. The almighty MS Paint was unleashed to come up with this cow-less banner..



With the 2011 competition, thankfully I wasn't in charge of making the banner I believe it was noobmonkey that came up with this funky design (correct me if I'm wrong):



Now qwazix has joined the halls of competition banner fame



Now we have a professional neat competition banner, we'll have to get working on tidying up the wiki that it points to. Busy weekend ahead
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Nerf950 - Use your N9/N950 to fire a Nerf gun
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kojacker is offline kojacker
2012-06-03 , 03:25
Posts: 1,086 | Thanked: 2,964 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#180
Here is another proposal for categories, please let me know what you think. The idea behind it is to have fewer categories and to put the emphasis on new apps, but still to have something to reward app updates and beginners. 10 N950s and 15 N9s are our device allocation.
  • 1. Desktop, System & Utilities (2 N950, 2 N9)
  • 2. Games, Graphics & Multimedia (2 M950, 2 N9)
  • 3. Network & Communications (2 N950, 2 N9)
  • 4. Location & Navigation (2 N950, 2 N9)
  • 5. Other (2 N950, 2 N9)
  • 6. Updates to existing apps (3 N9)
  • 7. Beginners (made up of entries from categories 1-5) (2 N9)
----------------------------------------------
Total devices: 10 N950, 15 N9

Category 5 (Other) is a catch-all but could be replaced with something more specific, for example "Business & Office".

Category 6 (Updates) has a fewer number of devices (only 3, all N9s).

Category 7 is especially for beginners. Beginners are able to compete for the prizes in any of the 1-5 categories, category 7 is an extra chance and an incentive for beginners to take part and start developing. It ensures that, in the face of competition from experienced developers, atleast 2 beginners will get their hands on devices.

The above proposal doesn't include provision for a multi-platform award category.

Here is the previous category proposal from zehjotkah

Originally Posted by zehjotkah View Post
1. Business & Office
2. Games
3. Graphics & Multimedia
4. Location & Navigation
5. Network & Communication
6. Others
7. System & Utilities
8. Update to an existing app

9. Beginner-Award (one from any category)
10. Multi-Platform-Award (one from any category)

Categories 1 to 7: Only new apps allowed (released within the competitions timeframe).
And ofcourse the other proposal is to have no categories at all and go for the big pot of applications.

I'd be keen to know which you prefer, or what you might change, etc etc
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