Of course they don't need to do anything, even releasing them. I'm just curious how it goes, Hurmola said that in 1-2 years Jolla is planning to sell millions of devices. I could bet they won't sell 100 000 till the end of 2014. Of course I could be wrong, but I hope they will have enough courage to publish sales results after a full year for us to check how Jolla CEO was wrong in that estimation.

Companies do it all the time, though, provide information on what will be swapped out in such an event. And in the case of the SIM holder, many people had their tricks to keep it running, knowing what the official fix could have helped them decide if they need help or not.

Plus, still, there is the question of respecting your customer enough to be frank with them - and the benefit of mutual respect that doing that consistently will entail. Being open with your customer is good policy.

Sure, I get your opinion(s). I just don't agree with them.

Asking people to send them in was all good and well. Circling around the explanation was unnecessarily secretive and harmful to Jolla's image is my opinion.

I have never, ever, heard of any company that has given detailed information about repairs before they have even seen the device. And I have sent them to repairs a lot (being the one who handled all such devices in a company I used to work for). Usually there is explanation in report enclosed to returned/replaced device, because it's not at all uncommon that reasons for problems turn out to be quite different when the device actually reaches the repair center (ie. one device that "just shut down by itself" and turned out it had been thrown into water...). As for the official fix, when such thing is announced, I presume it will correct the problem and I really don't see any reason why I would need more detailed info about it to send the device to repair instead of relying on temporary tricks.

Yet you are unable to see any arguments of others, and produce counterarguments to show flaws in those arguments.

As I see it, you desire all out deep technical details of every single problem (even if you deny this, it's really the logical consequence of modus operandi you are suggesting) just to satisfy your sense of "openness", which probably would be very harmful to both company, and community in the long run since even simplest things are frequently misunderstood and misrepresented both inside and outside the community. Correcting those can be time consuming and often doesn't help at all since certain kinds of stories sell better than others, and many outright lies become truths in minds of (mostly ignorant) people because of it. So, it's better to concentrate on communicating things that can actually make a difference to community instead of shooting out just about every piece of information just for sake of doing it without regard of risks involved. If you still insist them doing so, you are of course entitled to you opinion, but don't hold your breath trying to find a company so prone to self destruction.

Jolla's main issue seems to be that they have placed the value of their brand, or company image, above the value of their products and services. I don't think that is too difficult of an issue to overcome, but they will need the will to rework their marketing strategy, how they interact with the owners, and make some more clear-cut, 'digital' answers to the mounting pile of questions in recent months. They also need to be announcing some new models, as one phone a year just won't cut it in today's marketplace.

They have a quality phone, there's no doubt about that, given that I'm using one to type this. But from the sounds of things, it has not been a sound ownership experience for alot of you, and most of you agree on the poor communication aspect, though I haven't had the phone long enough to give constructive info on that sort of thing. Maybe by next year.

That is important take on this thread.

I am an early adopter and working in a position where hw is circulated and discussed. People ask me all the time what's that Jolla like and should I get one. I tell them my experiences, usually taking into consideration what I know about the situation. About everything, including other people's problems.

It is easier to be positive if there is plenthora of confirmed information around than if I have to be side-guessing things. So I agree with Pango's message.

Difficult question or responsibility if you want, as the hardware quality is surely a step down from Nokia. (how could it be different)
And without radio TX and IR remote or official other halves to support those and other features such as pro camera the included features are quite basic to gadget lovers.

So the answer is: Jolla is worth it if you are interested in an OS that is ... (fill in some reasons why we are still hanging here)

Software is the important factor here. I really wasn't in the market for a light and fragile candybar touch phone that one can twist to death easily.
But for the less than ubernerd early adopter there was no other option to get a decent running Sailfish OS without hassle.

If Jolla would have offered Sailfish for download to work on certain other hardware I might have paid myself already 3 licenses, undoubtedly providing more profit to Jolla than they could ever get out of selling me a single Jolla HW + Sailfish OS.
Especially knowing that I have sent the device already 3 times back (SIM, speaker, ...) before having it finally stabilized. Not counting the paper under battery fix as an issue.
Note that I did not complain once on Jolla together forum and that I have been very kind and understanding to Jolla support staff who on their turn were very kind and handling each complaint correctly. Because this is a small company and I am aware that they had to outsource the hardware and will learn from their(or their OEM manfucaturer's) mistakes I don't care about the HW child diseases.


What worries me is the slow pace at which Sailfish spreads to other, newer and better hardware.
And that doesn't need to be hardware with Jolla printed on. Again, sell me an OS that boots on Samsung / Motorola / LG xyz and a few "revived, inspired , powered by Jolla "stickers to stick on the back and I am more than pleased.

It is clear that Samsung realizing the Android + app create download ecosystem is a concept about to loose its freshness soon but is messing up with (propriety) Tizen. Jump in the gap, Jolla, offer something cooler than a Samsung with Tizen.

There is China looking for alternatives to iOS and Android, would it be hard to start communication with the Chinese authorities involved and to overcome to have Sailfish Jolla company audited in a bid to be allowed to deliver an out of the box solution to fill this gap? China has the empty hardware to sell back.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/...0GO08H20140824

Seriously I am all for purchasing a mobile OS to run on widespread recyclable hardware like a Google Nexus first.

That is what Jolla should do. I am not interested in their strategy being more communicated at official JollaOy press conferences but rather say what I as a customer expect from them.

I hope this could generate some cash and buy time to allow Jolla leverage to come with an own and this time superior hardware design when time is ripe. It works for Microsoft

The system seems to be half-baked for me. At the start I thought "Whoa! Finally a good phone", and after installing it on my N950 the impression was "It's just as crappy as Android or iOS". But it was an old release, I might be wrong. Is it still impossible to connect to WiFi only manually, as I do on my good-ol' N900s?

And through 2 weeks, no reply was made on this bug report. Even no "we're working on it". On mailing list - also ignored.

Again, this is a case where Jolla themselves said they know the root cause. Nobody was asking them to comment on each and every phone that might be sent in, simply to provide an explanation as to what kind of root cause that was - so that people know what they are sending their phones in for. I was making the additional point that such community sharing is beneficial to Jolla's image in the community, whereas secrecy is detrimental to their image within same. Keep the community updated during the process, make them waste less time guessing, and they will be a happier, more loyal bunch, because you have shared with them, sort of confided in them - that's my view.

Here is Toyota announcing a Prius recall, see that detail:

http://corporatenews.pressroom.toyot...all+021214.htm

And I'm not even asking them to do a recall or go to such an extent, but I do think that thread and the community participation angle would have greatly benefited from some openness on the matter. Just a few words on the reason why. Why hide it? After all, Jolla has TJC just for those kinds of interactions - it wasn't asking them for a press release (although the Toyota example is a press release). Now it just makes Jolla look really weird in my books - and, of course, this is not the only instance where Jolla has chosen to remain silent or offer platitudes when there is an issue. I think there is a danger things pile up for Jolla and will hurt their community relations and thus their, still important, early adopter business. Just my opinion, of course.

Paspie makes an excellent point that Jolla has placed the value of their brand above other things, in my view above their transparency. Apparently they feel handling difficult issues publicly would hurt their brand. Personally I think their brand image would benefit from more transparency, though, and that in reverse their brand image is actually hurt by the secrecy. I can say my personal excitement over "the movement" has waned as I've witnessed the company go down this path. I doubt I'm the only one. I get it that you disagree.

I think Jolla would do well to re-consider. There's still time to fix these comms, although rebuiling that trust towards those who've lost it can take some time. That would be for the benefit of all, especially were it to happen without community pressure - I'd like to think Jolla would actually want to share and communicate with the community quite transparently and have just failed at finding a balance so far. (That doesn't mean spilling out business secrets, of course.)

I provide counter-arguments all the time. You just ignore them. And again, I'm not asking for "all out deep technical details of every single problem", which is just basically you trying to portray me as something I'm not. I'm sure there a fallacy for that on Wikipedia. I think there is perfectly good balance out there to be struck between transparent, open and respectful community relations and comms on one hand, and business interests on the other. I don't think Jolla is striking that balance at the moment, hence I'm providing feedback. For example, the SIM card holder episode could have been fixed with a few additional words of real fact - and suddenly it would not have looked like secrecy at all.

As for community relations and communications failures, how is the current strategy working for Jolla? Any disgruntled people out there? I know there are people on this thread who believe Jolla couldn't have done any better and it is an impossible mission to do any better, but I do think they could have done better. Some of the vitriol could have been avoided. Less secrecy would be one key. Now the silence leaves voids that will be filled by other voices.

But let's not ponder in vain, let's ask: Philippe, you said I had missed the answer perhaps. Can you offer now an explanation to the SIM card holder root cause as it seems no explanation has been offered before? Did we just miss the answer?

Here is the TJC thread on the SIM card holder: https://together.jolla.com/question/...e-lost-easily/

And if it is still unclear to Philippe what kind of interactions I would like to see improved, here is a second example. The Jolla pre-orders thread, where Jolla the company stayed mostly silent and cybette offers plenty of platitudes, but no real info. The background to this story was that pre-orders weren't really even shipping in volume when external sales started - Jolla only acknowledged this once the external sales started, before that it was silence or platitudes (and after, even though the orders took a long time to fulfill, it was still just silence/platitudes/jokes):

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=274
http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...&postcount=486

The "we're sticking stamps on your packages right now" is especially cringeworthy as it simply wasn't true, but it probably isn't cybette's fault that the official channels remained silent and no info was authorized to be released. cybette probably did what she personally could. So there was the usual joking and Twitter photo of a van instead of any real info in that thread and in Jolla social media channels during that time. I guess to this date we still don't know what went wrong in the shipping process, but even that's beside the point, again I'm confident that the early adopter community would have appreciated better information at the time to help the wait along. For some reason Jolla chose to keep to the platitudes, when clearly someone in charge could have easily made some updates on the matter.

We "love" you and you "rock", but we won't respect you enough to be at all transparent, isn't really a good message to start the community relationship with. I'm certain it wouldn't have hurt Jolla at all to provide some level of real status updates on the pre-order process, especially when the glitch came along and a real danger of the pre-order order slipping started rearing its head. They chose to stay silent. It is puzzling why they do that, it must be that someone high-up has a view on what their image should be and keeping issues hidden is relevant to that view. I mean, no harm to an start-up would come from opening up an early adopter pre-order delivery process, much less so than we could think could come from a SIM card holder recall related info. Yet it happened.

Even though in the latter link Jolla expressed a wish to improve comms, the same thing happened again with the SIM card holder. No real updates, silence about the stuff that could help people understand and bear it out. It happened again in the early response to the fk_lx vs. thp debacle, allowing it to escalate beyond control. And I think it has happened overall in Jolla's response to some of their changes in plans or strategy, e.g. related to markets or be it open-sourcing components, which have raised critical voices within the community. There seems to be a tendency to swipe things under the carpet comms-wise and hope they'll just go away on their own, but that's not transparency and that is no way to build trust. Maybe it is just me, but I see plenty of people loosing faith in Jolla and I think more openness, more transparency would be a good way to start weaning those people back. People love to feel they are part of something, but being part requires give and take - not keeping out.

So, here is jalyst's great suggestion on how Jolla could improve comms: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...1&postcount=29 More brutal honesty and info, less social media fluff.

There is such fallacy JulmaHerra uses, it's called "strawman":
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman