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slender is offline slender
2011-03-15 , 21:32
Posts: 2,829 | Thanked: 1,459 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Finland
#1831
Originally Posted by mishmich View Post
Thanks for this, most helpful. In a year of coming here and owning an n900, this is the first time I have heard of these. The only reason I come here is because I want to know about new releases, updates, upgrades, software, etc. If I can find that out elsewhere, then I don't have to waste my (or anybody else's) time here.

Mish.
From right side menu -> Talk FAQ -> TMO rules.
http://talk.maemo.org/faq.php?faq=vb...q_tmorulestext

IMO in general here mods / site admins seem to underestimate necessity of advertising "self-evident" stuff that should be in blinking banners or in images around default layout.
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-03-15 , 21:52
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#1832
Originally Posted by mishmich View Post
No, actually, reading through the site, it is clear that Maemo.org is intended primarily to be a community for developers, but where users are accommodated. That is a difference. The CSSU is for developers, hackers and 'power users' (if you read the notes, this is made clear) - with a hope that one day it will be available for users (again, this confusion between what something IS, and what one day it might BE - as with MeeGo).

So, MeeGo and the CSSU - neither are for users, although people talk about them as if they exist in some usable format; they are for developers, and one day may be usable for people who are not developers, hackers or 'power users'.
I apologize to the people that otherwise might agree with wmarone and atilla, who aren't entirely wrong, but I believe mishmich has carefully and correctly worded the situation very well. I tend to feel that when Nokia was pioneering the Internet Tablet market in the 770/N8x0 days of Internet Tablet Talk, this forum was far more friendlier to even the average, non-programming tablet user. Thanks to a combination of Nokia's contempt of customers and loathing to communicate with them (ironic for a company whose motto is "connecting people") and the Talk.MAEMO.org community's demarcation from Nokia's support (which really, the two should be closely aligned--but they're not), the TMO forums have increasingly degraded over time to mainly a collection of frustrated threads with a very, very few technical gold threads. Most casual users aren't listened to and get labeled as useless or annoying and easily ignored despite the fact that they're actually trying to communicate their concerns to anybody that will listen. They can't be blamed. They got sold a device with potential--and that's all it'll ever be at this rate.

Props to you mishmich for a well said argument.

Originally Posted by slender View Post
From right side menu -> Talk FAQ -> TMO rules.
http://talk.maemo.org/faq.php?faq=vb...q_tmorulestext

IMO in general here mods / site admins seem to underestimate necessity of advertising "self-evident" stuff that should be in blinking banners or in images around default layout.
I'm not sure that it's clear what you're trying to specifically point out by citing the TMO rules. Did something happen?
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
Last edited by danramos; 2011-03-15 at 21:55.
 

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wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-03-15 , 21:54
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#1833
Originally Posted by mishmich View Post
It is fine - you are always right, you are not interested in listening to any criticism, and you have no issues about alienating potential allies.
And you are completely ignoring why I criticized Qrchak's statement. We are not Nokia, we are not beholden to Nokia, nor are we responsible for what he attacked the members of this community over.
Last edited by wmarone; 2011-03-15 at 22:12.
 

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geneven is offline geneven
2011-03-15 , 22:27
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#1834
This is a perfectly appropriate forum from which to criticise Nokia and it always has been. Here at least you can usually have a real discussion. On Nokia forums, customers are permitted questions and Nokia provides answers. That is not a discussion.
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mishmich is offline mishmich
2011-03-16 , 00:12
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 191 times | Joined on May 2010 @ New Zealand
#1835
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
And you are completely ignoring why I criticized Qrchak's statement. We are not Nokia, we are not beholden to Nokia, nor are we responsible for what he attacked the members of this community over.
I do see your point, but you cannot really divorce Maemo from Nokia quite so easily. I understand the frustration, but the reality is that Maemo only exists on Nokia devices, and was Nokia's baby - the only people who will come here will be people who have a Nokia device. Via MeeGo, it may be that some form of Maemo becomes available on other platforms - but as long as this forum exists, it will only be Nokia customers (albeit a limited range) who will ever have any interest in it. You may not be interested in Nokia customers, or 'ordinary' users and their needs - however, these will be the only people who will ever use Maemo. Without such people, well, what you are doing is little better than technical masturbation.

Mish.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-03-16 , 01:13
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#1836
Originally Posted by mishmich View Post
You may not be interested in Nokia customers, or 'ordinary' users and their needs - however, these will be the only people who will ever use Maemo.
Perhaps you missed everything I said. Qrchak attacked the Maemo community for not bringing customers to Nokia, something that was Nokia's job. He bashed people for not making "eyecandy" and instead making "useful" software, and essentially blamed this community for a failure that was undeniably Nokia's, specifically the failure to properly expand the platform, to create diverse hardware for the platform, to construct better development tools for the platform, and to support the Ovi store on the N900.

I, of course, felt that was totally out of line. I'll ignore the needless insult.
Last edited by wmarone; 2011-03-16 at 01:17.
 
Funklord is offline Funklord
2011-03-16 , 02:39
Posts: 69 | Thanked: 41 times | Joined on Feb 2010 @ Sweden
#1837
I think this, on the front page of the site, says it all:

Maemo Community is an open source community developing software around the Maemo platform. The Maemo community has over 22.000 registered members that contribute to more than 900 community development projects in the Maemo Garage. We work with open source tools and processes. We develop new software for both the platform itself and on top of the platform. Applications developed with the Maemo SDK are used today by thousands of consumers.
If you've come to bash Nokia, you're clearly in the wrong forum. Since this forum is first and foremost for developers, it's sad to see how dumbed down it has become, with basically trolling being a large part of the posts. Go to nokia.fi or call them, but don't hang around here if you've got beef with them.
Although this is the "General" part of the forum, there are limits to how non-technical the discussions should be in "general" .
If I were currently developing for Maemo, it would surely put me off from reading, and therefore answering any kind of support, since there's just too much noise.

I bet that part of the problem is that I haven't seen a single post being removed by a moderator.
 

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mishmich is offline mishmich
2011-03-16 , 03:15
Posts: 248 | Thanked: 191 times | Joined on May 2010 @ New Zealand
#1838
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Perhaps you missed everything I said. Qrchak attacked the Maemo community for not bringing customers to Nokia, something that was Nokia's job. He bashed people for not making "eyecandy" and instead making "useful" software, and essentially blamed this community for a failure that was undeniably Nokia's, specifically the failure to properly expand the platform, to create diverse hardware for the platform, to construct better development tools for the platform, and to support the Ovi store on the N900.

I, of course, felt that was totally out of line. I'll ignore the needless insult.
I understand that it was a wasted opportunity, a waste of time, a waste of effort. Very sad. I understand how frustrating that must be. I am sure that the developers are as pissed off about it as anybody else. My only point is that the way forward in that is to work with the users, not against them.

Mish
 
extendedping is offline extendedping
2011-03-16 , 04:04
Posts: 838 | Thanked: 292 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#1839
ouch, I was going to put $1000 into Nokia a few months ago just to start investing for my daughter.

Glad I never pulled the trigger.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-03-16 , 05:10
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#1840
Originally Posted by extendedping View Post
ouch, I was going to put $1000 into Nokia a few months ago just to start investing for my daughter.

Glad I never pulled the trigger.
Looking back over the past year, no kidding! I hope I can congratulate you for a better investment choice.

Despite what some think ofmy opinions, I'm not happy about it. I'd prefer that Nokia actually was part of the competition and a platform we could take seriously--but I can tell you that I saw this coming once they moved away from the TABLET idea (something they were ALREADY ahead of everyone else on... a missed opportunity to own a whole new segment) and went all "ME TOO!" iPhone cellphone with Maemo. Pff. They COULD have sold phones as data connection devices to pair with a TABLET. Obvious missed opportunities. Shameful.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
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