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The N900 is now 15 years old! (8)
to Nokia N900 by whayong - 15 hrs, 7 mins ago -
Sailfish OS for the Motorola Moto G7 Power (XT1955-5) - (ocean) (4)
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2009-11-24
, 23:31
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Posts: 474 |
Thanked: 283 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Oxford, UK
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#182
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Originally Posted by kanishou
Yes, but the pages in the video didn't look that complicated. At one point, something quite simple (inside the visible area) takes half a second to appear.
You'd need to solve the problem of "how to render a page faster than a user could possibly scroll, no matter how insanely complex the page layout is".
Considering the power of the N900 browser (which everyone is raving about), don't you think it's fair to cut it some slack if it occasionally needs half a second to catch up with the rendering during wild scroll-rides?
That tells me that either (a) the page is very complicated but looks simple, or (b) there's scope for a nice algorithmic improvement in how the renderer decides what to draw. I'm a secret admirer of nice algorithms so it's always nice to see a potential improvement
One technical option might be to lower the complexity of the rendered scene when the render can't keep up - e.g. by converting letters to little squares and/or lowering the overall resolution. Then it would look very smooth, but a little blocky - better than drawing in large chunks after a delay imho. The iPhone does something like this when zooming; I don't know if it does it when scrolling.
Of course, no matter how close to perfection it gets, there will always be some difficult web page that slows it down. Same is evident on the iPhone and other mobile browser. None of them are all that great if you expect silky smooth everything,
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2009-11-24
, 23:35
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Posts: 415 |
Thanked: 193 times |
Joined on Jun 2009
@ A place with no mountains
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#183
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Originally Posted by Megacrazy
Yes, I think it is self-explanatory in that the scrolling looked good to me.
Here we go some real life scrolling in the browser, flash off.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8JeLKKfDDM
If you want a comparative iPhone vid I can do that too but I think it's pretty much self explanatory. I might cover the actual OS later.
Don't forget - the iPhone is usually rendering pages designed for it or other mobile devices. In the N900 you are rendering full desktop web pages.
I take back what I said about your device being defective. I don't see a single thing wrong with the scrolling.
I'd like to see you post a video of the N900 and iPhone side by side and make sure the web page is exactly the same (not just the URL - the actual served up content). Make sure the CSS is the same, etc. Maybe create a test page and save it to disk.
I wager that the N900 will easily outperform the iPhone.
Originally Posted by Megacrazy
Yeah, I didn't see a thing wrong with the video you posted.
As far as the unit being defective...come on...seriously.
What am I missing?
BTW, I will have my device tomorrow. I'll test this stuff too.
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Hi! I would like to help make your experience on these forums better. If I can help with anything, just ask!
Useful links for newcomers: New members say hello , New users start here, Community subforum, Beginners' wiki page, Maemo5 Intro, Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Choosing open source is an important purchasing decision for your future. The closed source model of computing is a form of exploitation -- of us! Open source empowers us. Be smart -- chose open source.
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2009-11-24
, 23:39
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#184
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Originally Posted by ARJWright
Haha. With a maximum socket accept queue length of 1, just opening the port to the outside world would have bringed PalmOS to its knees.
Heck find a Palm LifeDrive and you can run a torrent app.
Originally Posted by jjx
Well how is hardware accelerated rendering going to help pushing pixels to screen? Not even for scaling hw acceleration helps (since, heh, scaling the rendered image would make fonts look blurry).Regarding resolution: yes, but on the other hand it's hardware accelerated rendering (or should be), and it turns out that resolution isn't much of a factor
You all seem to treat "smooth scrolling" like the most important thing in the universe. If that's the case, I'm sure framerate can be tuned -- even by yourself.
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2009-11-24
, 23:41
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Posts: 5,335 |
Thanked: 8,187 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Pennsylvania, USA
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#185
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Originally Posted by jjx
It took me two or three weeks to come around to liking my N900. In the beginning, I had a strong urge to put it back in its box and carry on using my N810. Now I couldn't go back.
...every phone I've ever had has been totally disappointing for the first 2 weeks while I bump into limitations and bugs, until I get used to ignoring those and using the useful bits.
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2009-11-24
, 23:52
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Posts: 2,427 |
Thanked: 2,986 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#186
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I'm a happy owner of an iPod touch 2G, but I'm having a hard time finding anything more ironic than visiting apple.com with my touch. It's one of the worst scrolling experience's one can have. Yet when I cruise apple.com with my n8x0's, the scrolling is like... Well, you know.
I'm glad to hear that people are generally happy with the n900's browser. I personally have no intention of touching microb with a ten foot pole. But worry not people, I'm guessing in the relatively not too distant future a webkit-based browser will be coming to an n900 near you. Throw in some user stylesheets and maybe a host's file, and you'll be blissfully gliding through the Web like Fred Astaire. I can almost hear the music.
I'm glad to hear that people are generally happy with the n900's browser. I personally have no intention of touching microb with a ten foot pole. But worry not people, I'm guessing in the relatively not too distant future a webkit-based browser will be coming to an n900 near you. Throw in some user stylesheets and maybe a host's file, and you'll be blissfully gliding through the Web like Fred Astaire. I can almost hear the music.
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2009-11-24
, 23:59
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Posts: 50 |
Thanked: 70 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Tampere, Finland
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#187
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Originally Posted by Megacrazy
And isnt that exactly what Nokia has been saying from day one: this is step 4/5, this is NOT end user ready.
As a geek I will definitely enjoy the phone...but for normal people this will fall waaaaaay short, especially when you can go get an iphone for 200$ that can actually scroll smoothly.
You americans with your iPhone price comparations... N900 is FREE here in Finland - with contract.
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2009-11-25
, 00:01
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 113 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#188
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Originally Posted by MountainX
No Problem. I will do a video of the 3GS vs the N900 scrolling this very thread. It will be pretty embarrassing mainly because the amazing browser on the N900 doesn't even render this site properly.
Yes, I think it is self-explanatory in that the scrolling looked good to me.
Don't forget - the iPhone is usually rendering pages designed for it or other mobile devices. In the N900 you are rendering full desktop web pages.
I take back what I said about your device being defective. I don't see a single thing wrong with the scrolling.
I'd like to see you post a video of the N900 and iPhone side by side and make sure the web page is exactly the same (not just the URL - the actual served up content). Make sure the CSS is the same, etc. Maybe create a test page and save it to disk.
I wager that the N900 will easily outperform the iPhone.
Yeah, I didn't see a thing wrong with the video you posted.
What am I missing?
BTW, I will have my device tomorrow. I'll test this stuff too.
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2009-11-25
, 00:05
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Posts: 607 |
Thanked: 450 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Washington, DC
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#189
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Originally Posted by kalle
Somehow I missed the "this is NOT (or even not) end user ready" on Nokia's website or in their press releases.
And isnt that exactly what Nokia has been saying from day one: this is step 4/5, this is NOT end user ready.
Had they sold it as a new Nokia Internet Tablet, a follow-on to the N810 with phone capabilities and an upgraded OS, the smartphone people wouldn't be on here complaining about the phone features. OTOH, they wouldn't be buying it either. I wouldn't be surprised if the N900 sells more units between now and the end of the year than the N800 and N810 (combined) did during their entire production run.
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2009-11-25
, 00:15
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#190
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Originally Posted by Megacrazy
I must have the super amazing version, because once again...
No Problem. I will do a video of the 3GS vs the N900 scrolling this very thread. It will be pretty embarrassing mainly because the amazing browser on the N900 doesn't even render this site properly.
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As far as the web browser goes i would really want to see just simple back and forward buttons on it. Don't understand why did they brought this from S60 that i was 100% not to see.
Other than those that i have been pleasently surprised about the browser and i do really think it's easily in the top 5 smartphone web browsers out there. Those things fixed and this will be truly amazing.
As far as rest of the phone goes i knew exactly what i was getting so no nasty problems for me, but there's lots of missing from this phone and with the hardware some performance aspects should be improved. While people want to compare Nokias past efforts with Symbian imo it's just unfair to compare very different OS and what uk based Symbian as a company was(owned by Nokia since last year) to Maemo that's in a different position than in the past inside and outside Nokia. They need to do just the same as Android no less, but wont mind if they do it faster