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The N900 is now 15 years old! (9)
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2010-08-06
, 16:48
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Posts: 11,700 |
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Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#182
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Originally Posted by Grok
I have been going by what I see with my son and his Nexus One. I'm very impressed.
IMO Android is not as awesome as some people think. There are WiFi connectivity issues across the board and the support from the android community is no where close to the quality that this community provides. HTC phone-in support has been apathetic and disinterested too.
Good luck with Android.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-08-06
, 17:11
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Posts: 724 |
Thanked: 1,255 times |
Joined on Nov 2007
@ Cambridge, UK
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#183
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Nokia know full well that if other venders join the MeeGo bandwagon, then their job becomes a lot more competitive on that front. Nokia became complacent, they were top dog and didn't/don't put R&D or customer upgrade paths in the places where their customers really want it. This is something that will drastically alter their hand now with MeeGo. They will have to continually be the best to keep on top, Android and Apple aside.
Quim even mentioned something along these lines when there was a query about vendors mucking up MeeGo on their own devices. If you as a customer are not happy with the device, and see a better option from someone else, you'll go for it. This is extremely evident in the Android handset market and I'm sure Nokia are going to learn a great deal from them. With all the Android based devices out their the competition has really kicked off and customers will weigh up the benifits of one device over another. Hopefully this will happen with MeeGo and put back the competitive streak that Nokia have been missing the past 5 years.
Good luck Nokia, I really hope you're up to it.
Last edited by tswindell; 2010-08-06 at 17:15. Reason: Horrible grammer
Quim even mentioned something along these lines when there was a query about vendors mucking up MeeGo on their own devices. If you as a customer are not happy with the device, and see a better option from someone else, you'll go for it. This is extremely evident in the Android handset market and I'm sure Nokia are going to learn a great deal from them. With all the Android based devices out their the competition has really kicked off and customers will weigh up the benifits of one device over another. Hopefully this will happen with MeeGo and put back the competitive streak that Nokia have been missing the past 5 years.
Good luck Nokia, I really hope you're up to it.
Last edited by tswindell; 2010-08-06 at 17:15. Reason: Horrible grammer
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2010-08-06
, 17:13
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Posts: 11,700 |
Thanked: 10,045 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
@ North Texas, USA
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#184
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tswindell, that was one of the best posts I've seen on the subject.
__________________
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
Nokia Developer Champion
Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net
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2010-08-06
, 17:25
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Posts: 3,428 |
Thanked: 2,856 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
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#185
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Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Thank you for the link. I have yet (including the most recent build) been able to successfully connect to my WiFi using the UI that looks like it's supposed to work. I tried everything that they show in the Moorestown Video preview and almost every app either crashed, failed to launch, or didn't work right. I was talking with you the night I ended up being able to finally get my Wireless working by manually adding every command I needed to /etc/rc.local.. but even there it was extremely flakey. I have not tried all of these in the new build released yesterday(ish), I simply booted it, messed around for a few minutes, tried to get connected to wireless with the tool (which failed) and then rebooted.
http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/HandsetTestReport for exact reports of what is different. These are development images. Sometimes Aava things are totally hosed, sometimes N900 images are totally hosed, sometimes they are equally screwed.
I understand they are dev/alpha releases and things break. I'm a developer, I know this. The point is that at release there: a) was no N900/Arm capability at all.. there was a problem in the kernel or something that delayed it a day.. and b) was obvious that the Moorestown was more complete at that time.
Anyway, you focused on one very minor and specific point in my post that wasn't the overall point of where I was going. All of this is water under the bridge. The N900 is coming along, I'm sure it'll get to the point in the future to be functional. I know this.
The point is, well, further shown by you actually:
Originally Posted by Stskeeps
Tell me, why is that hosted at nokia.com? Why are those not hosted here?
Now, will you go test the development images (yes, we uploaded a MeeGo image), report the bugs in the images, submit merge requests to our scripts and code in the hardware adaptation or contribute to MeeGo in general or even discuss the work and direction? By having as many contributors now as possible, the faster we get the work done, including these early contributors becoming experts in 'MeeGo on N900', making them capable of maintaining things in the future.
Is there something special in them that only nokia.com can distribute? (rhetorical, obviously)
Ok then.. so with the official report from Nokia that the N900 will not be officially supported once MeeGo is stable/finished then how long can we expect to Nokia to maintain and get those proprietary components into community builds of MeeGo for our N900?
As I've said.. my points have all been related to Nokia's view of the N900 and so far everything we've seen/been told is that the N900 has no future in nokia. So why should I feel all warm and fuzzy that the only way I can build a workable image is from nokia.com?
Sorry that my post is a little over-combative.. I kinda took your post a little personally with the way it was presented, the challenge to "do something", and the repeated links to the MeeGo N900/ARM page that proves nothing at this stage of the game regarding how long Nokia is going to continue to care to distribute images for the N900 when all it is to Nokia is a money-hole since they won't be officially selling or distributed updates for existing and new users to the N900 when MeeGo is officially released.
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2010-08-06
, 17:28
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Posts: 1,179 |
Thanked: 770 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#186
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Originally Posted by tswindell
I am really hoping others join the meego train for that reason. There are so many amazing android devices coming out now and I think a big part of is the competition is so intense that if your device is not of a very high standard it is likely to be completely ignored.
Nokia know full well that if other venders join the MeeGo bandwagon, then their job becomes a lot more competitive on that front. Nokia became complacent, they were top dog and didn't/don't put R&D or customer upgrade paths in the places where their customers really want it. This is something that will drastically alter their hand now with MeeGo. They will have to continually be the best to keep on top, Android and Apple aside.
Quim even mentioned something along these lines when there was a query about vendors mucking up MeeGo on their own devices. If you as a customer are not happy with the device, and see a better option from someone else, you'll go for it.
Personally I never want to buy another Nokia device (with them refusing to fix the usb port on my N900) but I am quite liking the idea of meego. Hoping for HTC to join the party. And Samsung who seem to have come along way since the horrible Samsung Tocco.
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2010-08-06
, 17:29
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#187
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
It's simple really. The blobs I keep on referring to (wifi, bt, sgx) does not currently have licensing that allows us to distribute those blobs from repo.meego.com. Hence, those images containing them can't be there as well.
Tell me, why is that hosted at nokia.com? Why are those not hosted here?
Is there something special in them that only nokia.com can distribute? (rhetorical, obviously)
Hence we have to do our images outside the current release structure, but we follow them and QA considers our 'closed' images the ones to test.
(I'll read through rest of your post and answer, just wanted to answer this specific point as I had direct information, not speculation)
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As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
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2010-08-06
, 17:38
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Posts: 2,427 |
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Joined on Dec 2007
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#188
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
If you want a breath of fresh air, go read some of the Dalvik documents here. This is a mature product that is probably getting better every day. It might not be someone's cup of tea, but it's impressive software and the docs are very well written.
Davlik-Half-asked-sucky-Java VM
Open source competition is good and the future looks bright.
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N9: Go white or go home
N9: Go white or go home
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2010-08-06
, 17:43
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Posts: 1,671 |
Thanked: 11,478 times |
Joined on Jun 2008
@ Warsaw, Poland
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#189
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Originally Posted by fatalsaint
Well, I do agree that Moorestown had more time to fix basic things as many things in MeeGo come from Moblin. I'm not sure what release you're referring to exactly.
I understand they are dev/alpha releases and things break. I'm a developer, I know this. The point is that at release there: a) was no N900/Arm capability at all.. there was a problem in the kernel or something that delayed it a day.. and b) was obvious that the Moorestown was more complete at that time.
If Handset day one, I'll state that I was on vacation at the time, following the chats through a J2ME IRC client, so I don't have the whole picture of what was going on there. Biggest problem with handset day one was that we were going to have this in the middle of the invasive changes period. Guess how difficult that is.
Ok then.. so with the official report from Nokia that the N900 will not be officially supported once MeeGo is stable/finished then how long can we expect to Nokia to maintain and get those proprietary components into community builds of MeeGo for our N900?
This does not mean no 'supporting' as in no resources thrown after it. This is obvious from anyone looking at how much effort is going into the MeeGo platform from Nokia's side. As well as the reference platform of N900.
As I've said.. my points have all been related to Nokia's view of the N900 and so far everything we've seen/been told is that the N900 has no future in nokia. So why should I feel all warm and fuzzy that the only way I can build a workable image is from nokia.com?
(We are working so things are published from repo.meego.com instead. Things take time when there's legal aspects involved)repeated links to the MeeGo N900/ARM page that proves nothing at this stage of the game regarding how long Nokia is going to continue to care to distribute images for the N900 when all it is to Nokia is a money-hole since they won't be officially selling or distributed updates for existing and new users to the N900 when MeeGo is officially released.
I'd be a lot happier man if we didn't have the blobs at all. My point was that they require little maintenance. And that the 'cost' of maintenance is less if there's also community people capable of lifting burdens together with us.
My main gripe is that people here complain more than contribute (and this obviously doesn't apply to Fatalsaint, who is contributing in many different ways). More work, less talk.
__________________
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.
Last edited by Stskeeps; 2010-08-06 at 17:46.
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2010-08-06
, 17:51
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Posts: 5,335 |
Thanked: 8,187 times |
Joined on Mar 2007
@ Pennsylvania, USA
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#190
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Originally Posted by tswindell
Those closed source, proprietary applications riding atop the open MeeGo stack will really be critical then, eh?
Nokia know full well that if other venders join the MeeGo bandwagon, then their job becomes a lot more competitive on that front. Nokia became complacent, they were top dog and didn't/don't put R&D or customer upgrade paths in the places where their customers really want it. This is something that will drastically alter their hand now with MeeGo. They will have to continually be the best to keep on top, Android and Apple aside.
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As you go on to other communities, remember to build them around politeness, respect, trust and humility. Be wary of poisonous people and deal with them before they end up killing your community.. Seen it happen to too many IRC channels, forums, open source projects.