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fms is offline fms
2010-01-18 , 18:17
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#11
Originally Posted by qgil View Post
We have got at least 3 problems that I recall in this relatively short period: wallpapers with Nintendo copyrights, Radio FM messing with speakers affecting phone calls and Load applet advertising screencasts that actually won't work, confusing several users.
Well, honestly, I would forgive the Load applet, no screencasts is no big deal. The Nintendo wallpaper thing has been obvious from the first day, I have no idea why nobody at Nokia noticed it. The wallpapers were technically ok though, so they passed through the approval process. This leaves Radio FM messup. Not much in terms of problems.

I think the key feature that would make testing more accessible to power users and even fun is to split ratings by blocker criteria, as discussed some time ago.
I do not think there is anything you can do to increase the number of people testing stuff. "Power users" generally do not test and they do not vote. They just use, even if it means enabling potentially unsafe repositories. Making every voter go through a checklist just reduces the number of people who vote. People who do go through checklists appear to be a very special kind of people, more like career Wikipedia editors. These are rare and they are weird.

So, as you might have guessed, I am very skeptical on any "improvements" anyone is going to bring to the Extras vetting process. If anything, we need less enforcement, not more.
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Flandry is offline Flandry
2010-01-18 , 18:47
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#12
Who is in charge of this and what is necessary to get changes made?

Let me point it out that at no point in my initial post am i advocating a system less secure than what is in place lest the impression be given that it was a request that needs to be debated. Again, it's simply a request that the process be completely implemented as planned.

Since we're kinda off in la-la hypothetical land with the discussion, let me throw at you a scenario: it is discovered that a popular app in Extras has a timebomb built into it that will do something really heinous in one more day. What do we do?

First of all, we do need a demote button and it does need to be accessible to official testers. They need to be able to demote something from Extras found to be in violation of QA criteria, and able to throw testing versions back to -devel when blockers are discovered (to avoid wasting tester's time).

Second of all, the system needs a built-in facility to inject a stub package into Extras that displays a customized message when installed or executed. Bonus points if app manager recognizes it as an "urgent update" and gives unusual notice of its existence.
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Last edited by Flandry; 2010-01-18 at 18:49.
 

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fms is offline fms
2010-01-18 , 18:51
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#13
Originally Posted by Flandry View Post
Since we're kinda off in la-la hypothetical land with the discussion, let me throw at you a scenario: it is discovered that a popular app in Extras has a timebomb built into it that will do something really heinous in one more day. What do we do?
Tell Tero Kojo, Niels Breet, or Jeremiah Foster, who remove the application. Why are you asking? Has this ever happened?

First of all, we do need a demote button and it does need to be accessible to official testers.
There are no "official testers" right now.

They need to be able to demote something from Extras found to be in violation of QA criteria, and able to throw testing versions back to -devel when blockers are discovered (to avoid wasting tester's time).
No. No single person, except the dedicated repository adminstrator, should have the right to single-handedly demote or promote packages.

Second of all, the system needs a built-in facility to inject a stub package into Extras that displays a customized message when installed or executed.
Why does the system need that?
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2010-01-18 , 19:00
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#14
Originally Posted by fms View Post
Tell Tero Kojo, Niels Breet, or Jeremiah Foster, who remove the application. Why are you asking? Has this ever happened?

No. No single person, except the dedicated repository adminstrator, should have the right to single-handedly demote or promote packages.

Why does the system need that?
Because there are hours when none of them are around. This is a la-la land hypothetical situation with equally hypothetical and general solutions that rely on no one person to work. The relying on individuals doesn't seem to be getting us far, so maybe it's not a good strategy?

There are no "official testers" right now.
Yes, exactly. Can we get back to why not and when?
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Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
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Accelemymote: make your accelerometer more joy-ful
 

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2010-01-18 , 19:00
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#15
There's nothing wrong with my wallpapers. They are fair use and legal and I have not been told otherwise. They were taken down because of a misunderstanding and I'm not bothering to put them back up because, quite frankly, I'm tired of hearing this kind of crap.

It's a big problem when I use a small portion of a bigger work for my wallpapers (fair use), but it's perfectly okay for certain other members of the community to grab 100% of a copyright image and use it in their package. Awesome. I'm so done with all this.
 

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fms is offline fms
2010-01-18 , 19:07
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#16
Originally Posted by Flandry View Post
Because there are hours when none of them are around. This is a la-la land hypothetical situation with equally hypothetical and general solutions that rely on no one person to work.
Well, I have provided a real solution to your hypothetical situation. If needed, there are more Nokia employees and contractors who can take care of the situation.

The relying on individuals doesn't seem to be getting us far, so maybe it's not a good strategy?
Whatever mechanism you are suggesting to implement, it will still rely on individuals. I would rather have it rely on technical Nokia people whom we all know to generally do the right thing, than on a bunch of random people I do not know.

In general, I would strongly suggest against implementing "solutions" against hypothetical situations. Nothing good has ever come from it. Remember this next time you fly somewhere.
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Flandry is offline Flandry
2010-01-18 , 19:16
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#17
Good, so we are agreed that this doesn't need more debate and just needs to be finished as planned. Wonderful.

BTW there's no need to rely on individuals for every bit of infrastructure. That's the whole point of open source. Would linux exist without Linus? Not per se. Would it have evolved into what it is today without him? Probably.

I'm sure i don't speak for only myself when i say there are volunteers to help get this implemented as planned, i didn't come stir things up without willingness to participate where possible.
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Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
MAME: an arcade in your pocket
Accelemymote: make your accelerometer more joy-ful
 

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fms is offline fms
2010-01-18 , 19:20
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#18
Originally Posted by zerojay View Post
There's nothing wrong with my wallpapers. They are fair use and legal and I have not been told otherwise. They were taken down because of a misunderstanding and I'm not bothering to put them back up because, quite frankly, I'm tired of hearing this kind of crap.
Oh, you know perfectly well that it has long stopped being about legality of certain fair use practices. Nowadays, it all comes down to the size of the entity you piss off. Nintendo is pretty high on the list and they absolutely hate people using even a few pixels of their "intellectual property".
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go1dfish is offline go1dfish
2010-01-18 , 19:20
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#19
Originally Posted by Flandry View Post
First of all, we do need a demote button and it does need to be accessible to official testers. They need to be able to demote something from Extras found to be in violation of QA criteria, and able to throw testing versions back to -devel when blockers are discovered (to avoid wasting tester's time).
I agree there is value in being able to demote an app from extras to testing.

But I fear providing facilities to demote from testing->devel will just end up causing more of the 'Power User' demographic to go enable the devel repository.
 
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VDVsx is offline VDVsx
2010-01-18 , 19:22
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#20
I'm responsible for the coordination of these improvements, but unfortunately Neils(X-Fade) that will implement the improvements is busy with things that have more priority at the moment. I think he will accept help if someone want to jump in and contribute some code.
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