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dneary is offline dneary
2010-05-06 , 13:08
Posts: 263 | Thanked: 679 times | Joined on Apr 2008 @ Lyon, France
#11
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
And the answer to that question is No. Commitments were made to maemo.org.
That seems a bit territorial, doesn't it?

MeeGo is the successor to Maemo. In a few months, Maemo will (probably) not exist any more as a community project, any more than GNOME 1 was in 2001... sure, some people were still building GTK+ 1.x apps until quite recently, even, but all of the work was going into GNOME 2.x. And in a short time, it'll be GNOME 3.x.

Similarly, while Maemo may continue to exist as a supported platform on some devices for a few more years, I don't expect any active development or community enablement to happen with it after the end of the year - thus, my question, what is the impact of MeeGo on Maemo? Where is my energy (and the energy of others) best spent in the coming months?

It may be that the energy can be best spent in Maemo, but honestly I've had fewer & fewer volunteers interested in Maemo tasks since the MeeGo announcement - either they're waiting for the MeeGo UX to release, or they're afraid that any work will soon be obsolete.

Ignoring the phenomenon and pretending that there are lots of people flooding to Maemo since the MeeGo announcement would be ignoring the elephant in the room, and I'm not in the habit of doing that.

Cheers,
Dave.
 

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dneary is offline dneary
2010-05-06 , 13:12
Posts: 263 | Thanked: 679 times | Joined on Apr 2008 @ Lyon, France
#12
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
As Dave kick started this, the council was discussing with Niels (X-Fade) the handover of the administration of the sprints to the maemo.org team themselves.
Ah - hope I didn't set a cat among the pidgeons. I wasn't aware of the conversation. Do you have a link, please?

Thanks!
Dave.
 
lemmyslender is offline lemmyslender
2010-05-06 , 13:20
Posts: 968 | Thanked: 974 times | Joined on Nov 2008 @ Ohio
#13
I think that SD69 has put it very well.

If someone is in a paid position for Maemo, all paid work should be for Maemo related issues (of course there may be some overlap with Meego). Free time (unpaid) is of course free to be spent on whatever project. Frankly, if Nokia is OK with having a paid Maemo person spend time on Meego related projects, it show Nokia's lack of commitment to Maemo.

On the other hand, the Maemo Community Council, should spend some time on Meego related items, as there likely will be some transition in the future. However, again they are the Maemo Communtiy Council and the focus should remain on Maemo issues. IMHO if a council member finds themselves spending the majority of their time on Meego related items, perhaps they should reconsider their commitments and step down.

I believe that the Maemo community will still be vibrant and active for some time to come, perhaps several more years. It needs a Council committed primarily to this community, not some crossover community with diverse interests. At some point Meego should have its' own Meego Community Council, probably sooner rather than later
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2010-05-06 , 13:23
Posts: 2,535 | Thanked: 6,681 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK
#14
Originally Posted by dneary View Post
Ah - hope I didn't set a cat among the pidgeons. I wasn't aware of the conversation. Do you have a link, please?
No, it was in private as I didn't want to post an announcement saying "As Niels is team leader he's now responsible for organising you all". I figured that this change (putting the council and Nokia equal as stakeholders) could piss a few people off (including Niels if he wasn't on board; and Nokia since they hold the contracts).

However, I did outline it in my manifesto when standing :-)

http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ch/004118.html
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dneary is offline dneary
2010-05-06 , 14:19
Posts: 263 | Thanked: 679 times | Joined on Apr 2008 @ Lyon, France
#15
Hi,

Originally Posted by lemmyslender View Post
If someone is in a paid position for Maemo, all paid work should be for Maemo related issues (of course there may be some overlap with Meego). Free time (unpaid) is of course free to be spent on whatever project. Frankly, if Nokia is OK with having a paid Maemo person spend time on Meego related projects, it show Nokia's lack of commitment to Maemo.
Nokia announcing that all future releases they make will be MeeGo not Maemo based was sufficient evidence of their lack of committment to Maemo for me :-)

That aside; can we get back to the core of what I started the thread for - if you have a staff available & ready to do things for Maemo, what do you want them to do in the coming months that won't be useless when MeeGo comes?

Or put differently, what can the Maemo project achieve that is useful over the next 6 months? Never mind the staff, we're at the service of the greater goals of the Maemo project, and right now, there are no well defined greater goals.

Think of it as a 100 Days 2: The Return of the 100 Days.

Cheers,
Dave.
 

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SD69 is offline SD69
2010-05-06 , 14:28
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#16
Originally Posted by dneary View Post
That aside; can we get back to the core of what I started the thread for - if you have a staff available & ready to do things for Maemo, what do you want them to do in the coming months that won't be useless when MeeGo comes?

Or put differently, what can the Maemo project achieve that is useful over the next 6 months? Never mind the staff, we're at the service of the greater goals of the Maemo project, and right now, there are no well defined greater goals.

Think of it as a 100 Days 2: The Return of the 100 Days.

Cheers,
Dave.
Thanks. This is all good. I was going to respond to your post #11, but as long as we end up at the same place of the staff doing projects for maemo, no need squabbling about how we get there.
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2010-05-06 , 14:52
Posts: 2,535 | Thanked: 6,681 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK
#17
Originally Posted by dneary View Post
Or put differently, what can the Maemo project achieve that is useful over the next 6 months? Never mind the staff, we're at the service of the greater goals of the Maemo project, and right now, there are no well defined greater goals.
Well, perhaps it's worth cataloguing first what people are working on? Starting with the "official" maemo.org team and then expanding it to the other people working on maemo.org (e.g. Henri).

Think of it as a 100 Days 2: The Return of the 100 Days.
This time it's personal?
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2010-05-06 , 14:55
Posts: 2,535 | Thanked: 6,681 times | Joined on Mar 2008 @ UK
#18
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
"As Niels is team leader he's now responsible for organising you all" http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/mae...ch/004118.html
However, given the workload that X-Fade is under, I've changed my position somewhat from "Niels chairs the meetings" to "Niels and the team come up with a process by which stuff gets decided in an open way". This may be Niels chairing an IRC meeting; someone else chairing an IRC meeting or drawing straws. Whatever the team feels best allows them to meet their "customer" requirements.
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andy80 is offline andy80
2010-05-06 , 15:17
Posts: 131 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on Jan 2007 @ Pistoia, Italy
#19
Originally Posted by dneary View Post

The monthly check-list meetings have not been satisfying for me. Nor has
not having a meeting at all. Over the past 3 months, it's felt like
large sections of the Maemo community have moved into wait-and-see mode
with MeeGo, and no-one wants to be working on things now which end up
being obsoleted by MeeGo/Harmattan work in a few months.
this is exactly my sensation. I mean... I'm moving to Qt/C++, but that's all for the moment.
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SD69 is offline SD69
2010-05-06 , 15:22
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#20
Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
I think Dave's point is longer lived than right now. Managing the maemo.org staff is not the job of the council - we're customers and stakeholders who want "things" done in a timely and open way. By moving to a position where we state our requirements and it's up to the team to organise themselves to deliver them, alongside their internally generated requirements (BAU) and Nokia priorities.

As Dave kick started this, the council was discussing with Niels (X-Fade) the handover of the administration of the sprints to the maemo.org team themselves.

The council, and Nokia, would feed our priorities into that process - and the process would be open for everyone to see as the team split up the tasks, take ownership and deliver them. Volunteers from the community would be able to chip in in either specific areas (and the council can act as a rallying point if needs be) or on whole tasks of interest.
OK....

Council doesn't have to manage the details and administration, and can leave it to staff to decide how to accomplish tasks, but it should mark that it is out-of-bounds for staff to directly ask Nokia for permission to spend paid time working on projects outside maemo.org for the two reasons that I mentioned.

And at least one Council member should be at available for the monthly sprint meetings.

Originally Posted by Jaffa View Post
With that, some of the requirements from the Council are, in rough priority order:
  1. Finalise SSO for maemo.org; including Talk account merging.
  2. Bugzilla easier to use (requires upgrade?):
    • Bugzilla style improvements
    • Bugzilla voting improvements ("me too" button?)
  3. maemo.org/packages/ QA improvements for maintainers and testers
  4. Consolidated documentation for developers (see Info Center thread for my thoughts)
  5. Autobuilder auto-optification
  6. Donation framework on maemo.org for authors to accept donations, if they so wish

Items #1 & 2 have no real benefit to a future MeeGo transition, but meet immediate problems. Item #5 may help as appplications are increasingly written with tools like Nokia Qt SDK and we need the auto-builder to improve them.

The others will give experience we can translate to meego.com, and possibly even implementations.
some quick thoughts - #1 has vexed us for awhile, and #2 is now questionable since we seem to be facing an end to bug fixes with MeeGo coming. At least #1 is useful in the future. I would add trying some project to bridge maemo and Meego, if possible, such as through stskeeps MeeGo adaptation for N8x0 devices replacement for Mer, Mer^2...
And while it is good, we shouldn't yet require that projects must have experience that can translate to meego.com, IMHO
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