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159NZ is offline 159NZ
2010-07-06 , 21:02
Posts: 6 | Thanked: 1 time | Joined on Mar 2010 @ New Zealand
#211
Back in the world of Nokia there saying:
!!all your base are belong to us!! And then they did the robot with some cheeses bass in the background.
 
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Nathraiben is offline Nathraiben
2010-07-06 , 21:05
Posts: 267 | Thanked: 408 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Austria
#212
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
So now they're broadcasting your phone number and kidnapping you? I give up. Reading your poor analogies is like being raped by an oil-coated BP capture boat captain dressed as Arthur C. Clarke.
Easily fixed - add me to your ignore list and you'll never have to be raped by my terrible analogies again.

Can we go back on topic now or are there any other sentences of mine you would like to rip apart in a hair-splitting attempt of defiling my opinion on what I like and what I find to be poor business practices?
 

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gerbick
2010-07-07 , 02:01
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#213
Well, lemme add to this madness... if we allowed Maemo, an OS derived from Linux and touted to be the "most open" (remember that wording) OS on a phone, using the power of Linux as a selling point.

Now... MeeGo is a definite different turn of events. Hosting by the Linux Foundation. Will MeeGo be as closed - in bits or parts - as Maemo? It shouldn't be. And if it is... then what's the opinion on that? Don't forget that MeeGo has been touted as the "most open" - but not 100% open.

But shouldn't it? I mean, it is under the Linux Foundation. So why would closed bits be in the way or included?
 

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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-07-07 , 02:32
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#214
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
But shouldn't it? I mean, it is under the Linux Foundation. So why would closed bits be in the way or included?
Because the mobile hardware industry is how it is, and expecting to ship a usable, 100% open distribution on reasonable hardware isn't currently realistic.
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gerbick
2010-07-07 , 02:44
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#215
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Because the mobile hardware industry is how it is, and expecting to ship a usable, 100% open distribution on reasonable hardware isn't currently realistic.
Then what is the difference between it and the others? You're just as locked in and you have to basically hack or find a way to get another OS onto that mobile hardware handset; do you not?

To a layman, the difference(s) are starting to get minor and "most open" is now easily relegated to marketing talk.
 

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geneven is offline geneven
2010-07-07 , 03:40
Posts: 5,795 | Thanked: 3,151 times | Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif
#216
Originally Posted by woody14619 View Post
That app was installed on your device on day one, along with at least a few other installer apps (facebook, om weather, etc). You may have not noticed it until recently, but it's always been there. And if you re-flash your device, it will again be there, since it's part of the base image. Most of them are simple apps that do nothing but launch the app manager with a command line to install the app it's pointing to. Most of them were on the desktop by default, so a new owner could easily get a few widgets just by clicking them.

I monitor all my installs (and fs usage), and can tell you there are no apps (outside the initial set) that I didn't install myself. I have about 40 apps showing in the app manager uninstall list, and to the one I've asked for each one to be installed. If you're seeing something being installed on your device that you didn't ask for, then something you've put on it is causing this behavior. It's not part of the base image from Nokia or Maemo. If it were, everyone would be seeing it.
You have made some assumptions about my consciousness that are untrue. I chose the AP Installer because it was the first on the list alphabetically that I noticed creeping back into my apps. I don't think that it happens only when I flash. Maybe it does for AP Installer, but it is only one example.

As to why everyone isn't seeing it -- maybe everyone isn't paying as much attention.
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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-07-07 , 04:05
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#217
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Then what is the difference between it and the others? You're just as locked in and you have to basically hack or find a way to get another OS onto that mobile hardware handset; do you not?
By October, it should technically be possible to "roll your own" complete with battery charging and 3D support. The goal, effectively, is to isolate and minimize the closed bits such that the greater OS is not impacted by it. We then pull in vendor support to ensure that the closed bits are available for whatever purposes the licensees (Nokia, you) desire for them.

To a layman, the difference(s) are starting to get minor and "most open" is now easily relegated to marketing talk.
The layman has always been that way. If we want something to be as open as possible -we- need to push for it. We also need to make sure that we don't trade off usability for openness, and really there is no reason to.
 

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gerbick
2010-07-07 , 05:27
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#218
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
By October, it should technically be possible to "roll your own" complete with battery charging and 3D support. The goal, effectively, is to isolate and minimize the closed bits such that the greater OS is not impacted by it. We then pull in vendor support to ensure that the closed bits are available for whatever purposes the licensees (Nokia, you) desire for them.
I'm totally playing devil's advocate here... so what if by 2011, we do not get "roll your own" options because nobody else - community inclusive - has yet to come to terms and task with the workspace, dev tools, software and whatnot. Then what? It hasn't exactly happened before so my (personal) faith is lacking.

And the closed bits... what if there is no true way to sidestep them and we end up with a SMS per UI replacement or major component change and that part of the telephony persists?

The layman has always been that way. If we want something to be as open as possible -we- need to push for it. We also need to make sure that we don't trade off usability for openness, and really there is no reason to.
I tend to agree; but in this case, I went to the absolute lowest common denominator while addressing an active group of people that will not fit into that group in the least.

Now with that said; I'm starting to find myself besieged by the marketing terms that are increasingly vague and off-putting explanations for things that do affect users (see the original post and the inability to sidestep that intrusion). I see many other things as the same with the OS. I cannot replace bits of it (quite yet) and I cannot live without those bits (as of yet). Am I doomed to be strapped into a wide open field where the borders are just farther out of sight as opposed to a walled garden?

It's getting dangerously close to where that is what the (now) common denominator of this group will start seeing and the layman already have sussed out with their "limited" understanding.

In simpler terms, the borders are being found, things like this enforce those borders and I fail to see the differences in some terms and ideals other than I have much more room to roam than some other options... I'm still somewhat fenced in.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2010-07-07 , 22:37
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#219
Agreeing with the sentiment: If "that's the way the industry is" is your excuse, you're not really convincing me that MeeGo/Nokia is fundamentally any more open or better.

Also.. Gerbick++
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-07-08 , 18:53
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#220
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Agreeing with the sentiment: If "that's the way the industry is" is your excuse, you're not really convincing me that MeeGo/Nokia is fundamentally any more open or better.
Acknowledging the reality of "that's the way the industry is" doesn't make MeeGo as closed as any competitor-- just recognizing that it isn't 100% open due to current needs of industry. It's still expected to be more open than anything else.

So I don't understand the rebuttal...?
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