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tortoisedoc	2015-11-26 , 06:22
Posts: 592 \| Thanked: 1,167 times \| Joined on Jul 2012	#2191

Originally Posted by Dave999

What do you mean?

Anyway hope for some tablet news tomorrow.

Tomorrow as in today? Why? Anything special happening?

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Peter@Maemo Marketing	2015-11-26 , 06:27
Posts: 179 \| Thanked: 1,679 times \| Joined on Nov 2008 @ Helsinki	#2192

Why going for restructuring then? Just for fun or to protect assets?

As far as I know from my time as an entrepreneur, the process of ramping down any company in Finland includes several mandatory steps: the first is the debt restructuring. You cannot avoid this step even if you wanted to. You can recover from debt restructuring and keep on going but if you are out of money you got to do the debt restructuring first before you can close the shop.

See more info under: https://www.prh.fi/en/kaupparekister...sakeyhtio.html

Peter

	Dave999	2015-11-26 , 06:34
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#2193

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

Why going for restructuring then? Just for fun or to protect assets?

As far as I know from my time as an entrepreneur, the process of ramping down any company in Finland includes several mandatory steps: the first is the debt restructuring. You cannot avoid this step even if you wanted to. You can recover from debt restructuring and keep on going but if you are out of money you got to do the debt restructuring first before you can close the shop.

See more info under: https://www.prh.fi/en/kaupparekister...sakeyhtio.html

Peter

So we are ****ed, lastu is ****ed. Good news. Finally this Saga comes to the end.

The End

Lets cheer for in unlikely open-sourceing of the OS!

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tortoisedoc	2015-11-26 , 06:46
Posts: 592 \| Thanked: 1,167 times \| Joined on Jul 2012	#2194

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

Why going for restructuring then? Just for fun or to protect assets?
Peter

In preparation of bankrupcy? If they are not 100% sure of being able to continue, it might be better to prepare for the worst? Maybe they are going to sell the company? And before that, they might want to settle debts (through restructuring)? Or they are trying to become more interesting for investors? Or, they are just shutting everything down; difficult to believe they want to do got this way intentionally, as according to the latest news they have been in talks with different vendors; plus, the intex lead must have a contractual bond of some sort.

Would Jolla matter per se tho? I mean, as a licensing entity it can pretty much function as an empty shell / just that? As in, something that basically validates the licesing (like the FSF does with the GPL).

Last edited by tortoisedoc; 2015-11-26 at 06:55.

Peter@Maemo Marketing	2015-11-26 , 06:57
Posts: 179 \| Thanked: 1,679 times \| Joined on Nov 2008 @ Helsinki	#2195

Originally Posted by tortoisedoc

In preparation of bankrupcy? If they are not 100% sure of being able to continue, it might be better to prepare for the worst? Maybe they are going to sell the company? And before that, they might want to settle debts (through restructuring)? Or they are trying to become more interesting for investors? Or, they are just shutting everything down.

To run a business, you need:
a) customers
b) employees
c) money

Jolla got customers, maybe the most loyal ones out there, even more loyal than Apple fans.

Most key employees have left or a leaving. Plenty of great guys and gals are still official Jolla employees but without pay, how long?

Money? Well, Jolla has got plenty of loans. Jolla has been getting 7.8 Million Euro of tax payers money, the majority of that being loans. The value of the company is not in product (Sailfish OS) because it is mostly open source, but the hero people that came together for this aspirational mission. And those people have left. And if it comes to debt restructuring, the first ones typically getting their hand onto any money left are the investors (i.e. the Hong Kong connection, if he was smart) and not the ones that loaned money (aka the Finnish tax payers). And who buys a company with that amount of loans and without the key employees?

Peter

tortoisedoc	2015-11-26 , 07:06
Posts: 592 \| Thanked: 1,167 times \| Joined on Jul 2012	#2196

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

To run a business, you need:
a) customers
b) employees
c) money

Jolla got customers, maybe the most loyal ones out there, even more loyal than Apple fans.

Most key employees have left or a leaving. Plenty of great guys and gals are still official Jolla employees but without pay, how long?

Money? Well, Jolla has got plenty of loans. Jolla has been getting 7.8 Million Euro of tax payers money, the majority of that being loans. The value of the company is not in product (Sailfish OS) because it is mostly open source, but the hero people that came together for this aspirational mission. And those people have left. And if it comes to debt restructuring, the first ones typically getting their hand onto any money left are the investors (i.e. the Hong Kong connection, if he was smart) and not the ones that loaned money (aka the Finnish tax payers). And who buys a company with that amount of loans and without the key employees?

Peter

Come on, this type of business is known to be not profitable on the short term; if none believed it, why did they even try?

Peter@Maemo Marketing	2015-11-26 , 07:10
Posts: 179 \| Thanked: 1,679 times \| Joined on Nov 2008 @ Helsinki	#2197

Originally Posted by tortoisedoc

Come on, this type of business is known to be not profitable on the short term; if none believed it, why did they even try?

You should have heard the Head of Tekes (The Finnish Funding Agency for Innovation, Government-funded) talking about why he supports giving Jolla money: he put Nokia and Jolla into the same powerpoint slide and believed Jolla was to become the next Nokia.

tortoisedoc	2015-11-26 , 07:19
Posts: 592 \| Thanked: 1,167 times \| Joined on Jul 2012	#2198

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

You should have heard the Head of Tekes (The Finnish Funding Agency for Innovation, Government-funded) talking about why he supports giving Jolla money: he put Nokia and Jolla into the same powerpoint slide and believed Jolla was to become the next Nokia.

So they should have no problem in putting more money in it no?

Anyways, if it's not faith that was missing, something must have changed their minds.

Last edited by tortoisedoc; 2015-11-26 at 07:47.

	Dave999	2015-11-26 , 08:07
	Posts: 7,075 \| Thanked: 9,073 times \| Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side	#2199

What are the fins thinking? Put $500 millions of taxpayers money in Jolla right now!

We must try the tablet atleast

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	Stskeeps	2015-11-26 , 08:14
	Posts: 1,671 \| Thanked: 11,478 times \| Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland	#2200

Originally Posted by Peter@Maemo Marketing

Hi,

here is a thought from somebody that knows plenty of the Jolla folks:

If you are thinking about the continuation of Jolla, then take a look at the facts on who is still around. In reality, all key contributors have left already or will leave in the near future. Here is a list:
Marc Dillon, Co-Founder & COO (former Maemo Variant Manager): Gone
Carsten Munk, Head of R&D (Former MeeGo developer): Gone
Valerio Valerio, Chief Software Engineer (former Maemo contributor): Gone
Souyma Bijjal, Head of SDK (former Maemo SDK program manager): Gone
Stefano Mosconi, Founder&CIO (former Maemo IT Manager): Leaving
Annikka Hautamäki, Chief Products Officer (former Maemo Product Manager): leaving
Pekka Itäpelto, Head of Business Development (former Nokia consultant): Gone
Tim McDonald, Marketing Director (former nokia.com design lead): Gone
Mikko Pykkö, VP Sales&Marketing (former Nokia sales director): leaving

Slight corrections, while not disputing it looks bad:

I'm not 'gone' any further than still pushing SailfishOS through contracting, which I also did for first many years of Jolla (and my last role was CTO, R&D fwiw.); where I switched to be a company for personal direction reasons, not because of the company.
"Chief software engineer" is a technical lead title in Jolla, which is not the only one. We are agile and swift around roles usually.
Soumya Bijjal was effectively Software Program Manager and Vesa-Matti Hartikainen has been that since quite a while now, and still is, not SDK. Soumya delivered a great software program. But doesn't mean that people cannot continue that role.
Marc Dillon hasn't been COO for a long while, more of an arbitrary "Head of Software".
Annika was Program Manager (of which we had a few of)
We have had a few Head of Business Development

It's more interesting to look at who's left in a tough financial situation to keep the boat afloat; and who didn't get laid off.

It's an insult to all us engineers (and some support functions), dare I say pioneering type of people who aren't laid off, who's been pushing hours, effort, sweat and a lot of tears since the start that we can't continue Jolla/SailfishOS when Jolla/SailfishOS is as much our effort and child as it is that of the founders. Sometimes the best thing founders can do is step aside and let people do what they're good at. In fact, for a very long while, we didn't even have internal marketing, all subcontracted. The power is in the networks around us.

We aren't all teary-eyed when founders leave, because the rest of us still have a mission and a job - but it does hurt us all when the company is in financial trouble, or we are having difficulties delivering our products and we have to scale down the company to survive tough seas and what we've built falling apart. Perhaps we should have scaled down even more longer ago.

Each of us have grown our area of expertise, including kickstarting other areas - and hired, interviewed most other people that are now temporarily laid off. Many of whom really haven't wanted to leave. We've been fighting like mad at every step of the road for Jolla - and why should we stop at slightest taste of failure? Failure makes you stronger.

The thing is - you learn from failure - else all humans would be crawling around on the floor instead of walking. Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan. Would you hire a person with a lot of success, with no failures, or somebody who has gotten even bigger success after a lot of failure?

It's a bad situation, sure, but not the end of the road right now for SailfishOS. How much the Jolla brand is tainted? That's a even bigger question. And how the organisation looks like after this situation and our ability to recruit.

It ain't over till the fat lady sings.

Last edited by Stskeeps; 2015-11-26 at 08:21.