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GeneralAntilles |
2007-12-04
, 14:42
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#231
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Originally Posted by dubiousmike
Ah, in that case, mouth on!
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2007-12-04
, 14:45
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Posts: 3,841 |
Thanked: 1,079 times |
Joined on Nov 2006
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#232
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The GA is spot on with the underclocking - no need, the system does that fine by itself as needed. Also, the OS reduces the voltage when it can too, which as far as I have understood is an equally important battery saving factor. I wouldn't want to fiddle around with manually adjusting the voltage level.
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N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
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2007-12-04
, 15:05
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Posts: 2,152 |
Thanked: 1,490 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ Czech Republic
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#233
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
Yes, the whole point of CPU underclocking is lowering its voltage. Without lowering the voltage you just do same thing longer at slower clock which does not save much. It may (apart from having sluggish system) even make your battery life worse since system has to keep various hardware parts powered for longer time waiting for CPU to finish.
Also, the OS reduces the voltage when it can too, which as far as I have understood is an equally important battery saving factor.
This idea is often called "race to idle" - the best approach is almost always to run at the fastest clock frequency afforded by the current voltage level and get the work done quickly.
See #11 here http://lwn.net/Articles/240253/
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2007-12-13
, 17:50
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Posts: 35 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
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#234
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What would I like to see:
+ A slightly bigger screen (6 or 7'' maybe) with a 800x600 or 1024x768 pixel resolution. Enough to view most technical PDF, allowing me to get rid of books and/or carry most documentation even without Internet access
+ 7-8 hours of battery life with WiFi and Keyboard on so I can use the thing over a workday full of discussions and note taking
+ Some decend applications that can read/write/display Word, Powerpoint and Excel. Sorry but those ARE the standards that our customers (and therefor my employer) work with
+ Synchronisation with Outlook and Notes on the level of what a WiMo System can do for Outlook
+ NO harddisk. Please no moving parts. And bring back the hardcover of the 770 or something similar. I like rugged. Adding a sturdy integral belt-loop/stand combination won't hurt either
+ Either a slide out keyboard or another way to carry a keyboard without needing cargo pants or an attache case. This might include things like laserkey (I am not a touch-typist anyway)
+ Full USB bus and support for attaching to a printer, a camera or an external hard drive. This includes a printer-driver that speaks PCL
+ NO cameras please. Build-in Cameras mean that I can't take the unit everywhere. If I really need one, it's better to be abel to attach an external unit through USB or Firewire
+ Telephone support. Either through a card slot (like some PDA) or build in. And please with UMTS and Quad-Band support
+ UPnP support, at least as a media player.
Give me a unit that can replace one of the larger-sized WiMo 5 or 6 phones and we have a deal.
+ A slightly bigger screen (6 or 7'' maybe) with a 800x600 or 1024x768 pixel resolution. Enough to view most technical PDF, allowing me to get rid of books and/or carry most documentation even without Internet access
+ 7-8 hours of battery life with WiFi and Keyboard on so I can use the thing over a workday full of discussions and note taking
+ Some decend applications that can read/write/display Word, Powerpoint and Excel. Sorry but those ARE the standards that our customers (and therefor my employer) work with
+ Synchronisation with Outlook and Notes on the level of what a WiMo System can do for Outlook
+ NO harddisk. Please no moving parts. And bring back the hardcover of the 770 or something similar. I like rugged. Adding a sturdy integral belt-loop/stand combination won't hurt either
+ Either a slide out keyboard or another way to carry a keyboard without needing cargo pants or an attache case. This might include things like laserkey (I am not a touch-typist anyway)
+ Full USB bus and support for attaching to a printer, a camera or an external hard drive. This includes a printer-driver that speaks PCL
+ NO cameras please. Build-in Cameras mean that I can't take the unit everywhere. If I really need one, it's better to be abel to attach an external unit through USB or Firewire
+ Telephone support. Either through a card slot (like some PDA) or build in. And please with UMTS and Quad-Band support
+ UPnP support, at least as a media player.
Give me a unit that can replace one of the larger-sized WiMo 5 or 6 phones and we have a deal.
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2007-12-13
, 18:16
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#235
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Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
Then this isn't the device for you. Pocketability is the most important feature of this product line, this ruins that and turns the device into just another UMPC (of which there are plenty).
+ A slightly bigger screen (6 or 7'' maybe) with a 800x600 or 1024x768 pixel resolution.
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
This simply isn't realistic without major increases in size (to accommodate a large battery) or major decreases in performance (to increase efficiency).
+ 7-8 hours of battery life with WiFi and Keyboard on so I can use the thing over a workday full of discussions and note taking
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
Hard disk isn't realistic for a device of this size and power usage. I'm 100% agreed on that.
+ NO harddisk. Please no moving parts. And bring back the hardcover of the 770 or something similar. I like rugged. Adding a sturdy integral belt-loop/stand combination won't hurt either
I think what a lot of people overlooked about the loss of the 770's hardcover is that we got a badass kickstand out of the deal and, honestly, I'd much rather have that than a bulk-increasing, mildly useful hardcover.
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
A hardware keyboard is a waste of space, money, and time for me. I can type perfectly fine on the onscreen thumbboard, and losing the 2nd memory slot is not a good trade for a barely usable hardware keyboard. If you want a good keyboard, get yourself an iGo.
+ Either a slide out keyboard or another way to carry a keyboard without needing cargo pants or an attache case. This might include things like laserkey (I am not a touch-typist anyway)
A laser-keyboard is bad idea. Some of us are touch-typists (not a hard skill to learn, and incredibly important in today's digital world), and would prefer to have a keyboard that actually works.
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
We pretty much have this now, we just need more support on the software end.
+ Full USB bus and support for attaching to a printer, a camera or an external hard drive. This includes a printer-driver that speaks PCL
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
This is an N-series device, so it's a bit like asking McDonalds to give you a vegetarian cheeseburger—not gonna happen. Now, if we're talking about an E-series maemo device, go for it! (pupnik has since convinced me that product line diversification doesn't mean I'm going to have device envy no matter which one I buy
+ NO cameras please. Build-in Cameras mean that I can't take the unit everywhere. If I really need one, it's better to be abel to attach an external unit through USB or Firewire
)
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
There are a lot of reasons why this is a stupid idea (they've been beaten to death endlessly in this and other threads). So I'll limit myself to this: Please, dear god, no.
+ Telephone support. Either through a card slot (like some PDA) or build in. And please with UMTS and Quad-Band support
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
Both the File Manager and Media player support this natively, so I'm not sure why you're bringing it up. (There's even a UPnP server available, actually)
+ UPnP support, at least as a media player.
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
This may not be the product for you, then.
Give me a unit that can replace one of the larger-sized WiMo 5 or 6 phones and we have a deal.
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2007-12-13
, 19:59
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Posts: 1,878 |
Thanked: 646 times |
Joined on Sep 2007
@ San Jose, CA
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#236
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I agree that pocketability is key for the NIT line. I wouldn't mind seeing an UMPC line of products from Nokia with a larger form factor than the NIT (sort of like what HTC is starting to do).... but for the NIT line itself, it must be a pocketable device. Any suggestions to the contrary don't seem to be consistent with what the NIT devices are, and need to be.
However, on keyboard: I like the idea of a slide-out thumb keyboard. I recently bought a Samsung SCH-R410, and love using the slide out keyboard on it. Having one on my NIT is something I very much look forward too.
I would agree that "no rotating platter HDD" is a good goal... but a solid state HDD, in a 1.8" form factor ... if it doesn't really alter the physical profile (size, weight) of the NIT, doesn't eliminate the keyboard, nor affect the screen size? Then, I'm ok with that.
I'm ok with no camera. If there's going to be a camera, I'd prefer a picture cam over a chat cam. I have no real need/use for a chat cam.
on WWAN support ... I wouldn't mind seeing a version of the NIT that is WWAN enabled (EVDO, WiMAX, and/or HSDPA/HSUPA versions). I don't want to have to carry an extra device just to tether my NIT. It doesn't need to have cellular voice capability; SMS/MMS would be good, but Data only would be fine. And, if Nokia and Qualcomm ever bury the hatchet, didn't Qualcomm just come out with a chipset that could do all 3 of those WWAN protocols? So maybe it'd be one device. As long as you can still buy and use it without a WWAN service (so you can use it as a WIFI/bluetooth only device, just like the N800 and N810). If they had 1 wireless chipset (Wifi, bluetooth, WiMAX, CDMA/EVDO, GSM/GPRS/EDGE/HSPA) then it hopefully wouldn't even take up that much room.
Last edited by johnkzin; 2007-12-13 at 20:01.
However, on keyboard: I like the idea of a slide-out thumb keyboard. I recently bought a Samsung SCH-R410, and love using the slide out keyboard on it. Having one on my NIT is something I very much look forward too.
I would agree that "no rotating platter HDD" is a good goal... but a solid state HDD, in a 1.8" form factor ... if it doesn't really alter the physical profile (size, weight) of the NIT, doesn't eliminate the keyboard, nor affect the screen size? Then, I'm ok with that.
I'm ok with no camera. If there's going to be a camera, I'd prefer a picture cam over a chat cam. I have no real need/use for a chat cam.
on WWAN support ... I wouldn't mind seeing a version of the NIT that is WWAN enabled (EVDO, WiMAX, and/or HSDPA/HSUPA versions). I don't want to have to carry an extra device just to tether my NIT. It doesn't need to have cellular voice capability; SMS/MMS would be good, but Data only would be fine. And, if Nokia and Qualcomm ever bury the hatchet, didn't Qualcomm just come out with a chipset that could do all 3 of those WWAN protocols? So maybe it'd be one device. As long as you can still buy and use it without a WWAN service (so you can use it as a WIFI/bluetooth only device, just like the N800 and N810). If they had 1 wireless chipset (Wifi, bluetooth, WiMAX, CDMA/EVDO, GSM/GPRS/EDGE/HSPA) then it hopefully wouldn't even take up that much room.
Last edited by johnkzin; 2007-12-13 at 20:01.
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2007-12-13
, 20:29
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Posts: 35 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
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#237
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Antilles: This is the "What would you like" Thread. That's what I'd like. If Nokia can deliver, fine. If not, well Hello Asus/HTC/Samsung...
As for the 6-7'' display: I would have no problem fitting at least a 6'' unit in my coat or jacket pocket. Actually the N770 is too small for it and jumps around in my trenchcoat pocket. And enlarging it would allow for a larger battery so that problem would be solved just as well
Case: I never used the stand that came with the N770 and I never missed it. A strong, solid cover over the unit OTOH allowed for quite a bit of "carefree" treatment. Like simply dropping it in a attache case, trenchcoat pocket etc. Sure, I could buy an extra case (maybe Nokia even starts selling them) but why should I?
Keyboard: I obviously disagree here. Aside from the fact that I earn a living with computers since the mid-80s and still can't touch-type (and NEVER missed it) external keyboards take space. Carrying the tablet left and my papers right balances my coats and jackets nicely. But there's little space for another blocky tool. So it's back to an attache case. And if I carry one of those, I might just as well get an EEE (Bigger screen and all)
Telefone: Carrying around another brig (and I need a phone that a grown-up can dial on) is another "thanks but no thanks" criteria. I am quite willing to accept a card slot and an optional card here like some older PDA but in that case I at least need the slot and software support for a standard card
Not my device: Currently that is true. That's why I made wishes here. Maybe I get them fulfilled and buy an N9xx, maybe March 2009 sees my getting another WiMo (Contract renewal time)
As for the 6-7'' display: I would have no problem fitting at least a 6'' unit in my coat or jacket pocket. Actually the N770 is too small for it and jumps around in my trenchcoat pocket. And enlarging it would allow for a larger battery so that problem would be solved just as well
Case: I never used the stand that came with the N770 and I never missed it. A strong, solid cover over the unit OTOH allowed for quite a bit of "carefree" treatment. Like simply dropping it in a attache case, trenchcoat pocket etc. Sure, I could buy an extra case (maybe Nokia even starts selling them) but why should I?
Keyboard: I obviously disagree here. Aside from the fact that I earn a living with computers since the mid-80s and still can't touch-type (and NEVER missed it) external keyboards take space. Carrying the tablet left and my papers right balances my coats and jackets nicely. But there's little space for another blocky tool. So it's back to an attache case. And if I carry one of those, I might just as well get an EEE (Bigger screen and all)
Telefone: Carrying around another brig (and I need a phone that a grown-up can dial on) is another "thanks but no thanks" criteria. I am quite willing to accept a card slot and an optional card here like some older PDA but in that case I at least need the slot and software support for a standard card
Not my device: Currently that is true. That's why I made wishes here. Maybe I get them fulfilled and buy an N9xx, maybe March 2009 sees my getting another WiMo (Contract renewal time)
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2007-12-13
, 20:58
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Posts: 5,478 |
Thanked: 5,222 times |
Joined on Jan 2006
@ St. Petersburg, FL
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#238
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Originally Posted by johnkzin
In terms of mobile devices, this is still called "flash", the only reason it's referred to as a "hard drive" is because you can drop it in as a replacement in desktops PCs and they didn't want to confuse the issue for those users. There's no such thing as an SSD "Hard Disk Drive".
I would agree that "no rotating platter HDD" is a good goal... but a solid state HDD, in a 1.8" form factor ... if it doesn't really alter the physical profile (size, weight) of the NIT, doesn't eliminate the keyboard, nor affect the screen size? Then, I'm ok with that.
Realistically, though, there simply isn't enough room (or battery power) to stick one of those in the NIT lineup.
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
"What woud you realistically like to see in the N900?" is the name of the thread, and this implies a couple things: A. It's an N-series device and the successor to the N8x0s, so it has camera, it follows a similar formfactor and feature-set, and it is pocketable, and B. The requests are realistic (8 hour "in-use" battery life, and giant screens are not. More backlight = less battery life).
Antilles: This is the "What would you like" Thread. That's what I'd like. If Nokia can deliver, fine. If not, well Hello Asus/HTC/Samsung...
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
I live in Florida, I'm usually in shorts and a polo, I don't have massive pockets and I'm not interested in carrying around a device I could kill somebody with. Really, if your pockets are so freaking huge, what's the problem with getting a foldable bluetooth keyboard? Enlarging the screen also increases backlight power consumption, so, net-net, you probably end up at about the same place.
As for the 6-7'' display: I would have no problem fitting at least a 6'' unit in my coat or jacket pocket. Actually the N770 is too small for it and jumps around in my trenchcoat pocket. And enlarging it would allow for a larger battery so that problem would be solved just as well
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
I didn't either (and it's "770"), but the N800/N810's kickstands are invaluable and I wouldn't give them up for a semi-useful hardcover.
Case: I never used the stand that came with the N770 and I never missed it. A strong, solid cover over the unit OTOH allowed for quite a bit of "carefree" treatment.
Originally Posted by mbrinkhues
A phone should be a phone and an internet tablet should be an internet tablet. We're not at the point technology wise where a full convergence device really makes much sense. Besides, I don't know about you, but I sure as hell don't want to hold a device with a 6-7" screen to the side of my face.
Telefone: Carrying around another brig (and I need a phone that a grown-up can dial on) is another "thanks but no thanks" criteria. I am quite willing to accept a card slot and an optional card here like some older PDA but in that case I at least need the slot and software support for a standard card
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2007-12-14
, 10:59
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Posts: 35 |
Thanked: 2 times |
Joined on Feb 2006
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#239
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Well guess we disagree here about realistic as well as clothing. Since realism is always based on perspective, from my PoV a lot of the things ARE realistic. And with Nokia being from the colder parts of Europe they might agree. Heck, they might build one to fit in a rubber overboot given their background
Starting with the form factor since I don't wear shorts anywhere I carry a computing device that is of little concern to me. And likely for the majority of users. And backlight was actually turned quite low on my N770 so I doubt it's that much of a problem either, most people use this under resonable lighting conditions. I got around four hours from the unit so 7-8 with a bigger batterie seems resonable and fitting it in a 6'' unit seems doabel
Given the changes between the three tablets so far I don't think form factor and camera are chiseled in stone either. Strange but the N770 had no camera and the N800 has no slide out keyboard.
Value of the stand seems to vary a bit between users. If you have read what I posted, I haven't used it ONCE in the two years I had a N770 and never missed it.
And strangely there are companies that CAN deliver a tablet sized device with phone capacities. Either build-in from factory or delivered through an add-on card. And have a decend battery life too. As for the size, have a fish, last time I looked there was that thing called a "Bluetooth headset". I need one anyway for a phone since thats the only legal way to use it in the car. Now granted this is HighTech and might not have made it to the USA.
Starting with the form factor since I don't wear shorts anywhere I carry a computing device that is of little concern to me. And likely for the majority of users. And backlight was actually turned quite low on my N770 so I doubt it's that much of a problem either, most people use this under resonable lighting conditions. I got around four hours from the unit so 7-8 with a bigger batterie seems resonable and fitting it in a 6'' unit seems doabel
Given the changes between the three tablets so far I don't think form factor and camera are chiseled in stone either. Strange but the N770 had no camera and the N800 has no slide out keyboard.
Value of the stand seems to vary a bit between users. If you have read what I posted, I haven't used it ONCE in the two years I had a N770 and never missed it.
And strangely there are companies that CAN deliver a tablet sized device with phone capacities. Either build-in from factory or delivered through an add-on card. And have a decend battery life too. As for the size, have a fish, last time I looked there was that thing called a "Bluetooth headset". I need one anyway for a phone since thats the only legal way to use it in the car. Now granted this is HighTech and might not have made it to the USA.
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2007-12-14
, 11:23
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Posts: 6 |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#240
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Hello,
I want to say sorry for not reading the whole thread but it is already 24 pages. I am new N800 owner and the improvements for N900 I see would be:
- as thin as possible (drop the keyboard from N810)
- docking station (so it is always charged while using at home)
- let the touchscreen be a bit more sensitive (I tried iPod Touch so it is doable)
- use graphics hardware which is built in, make 3D API and make it available to developers
- stick with the same hardware, increase the clock frequency to keep up with time but do not change hardware platform (so current owners can taste the future by upgrading to the new OS)
- I heard that OS2008 is already more finger friendly and more responsive so it seems to be something Nokia knows already
Thanks,
Slawek.
I want to say sorry for not reading the whole thread but it is already 24 pages. I am new N800 owner and the improvements for N900 I see would be:
- as thin as possible (drop the keyboard from N810)
- docking station (so it is always charged while using at home)
- let the touchscreen be a bit more sensitive (I tried iPod Touch so it is doable)
- use graphics hardware which is built in, make 3D API and make it available to developers
- stick with the same hardware, increase the clock frequency to keep up with time but do not change hardware platform (so current owners can taste the future by upgrading to the new OS)
- I heard that OS2008 is already more finger friendly and more responsive so it seems to be something Nokia knows already
Thanks,
Slawek.
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| dpads are fun, ideas, n900, n900 wishlist, revenge of the styli, stuff for nokia to read, the wrath of sty, wishlist |
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