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korbé is offline korbé
2009-10-04 , 22:25
Posts: 206 | Thanked: 72 times | Joined on Jun 2009 @ Switzerland
#251
Originally Posted by Andre Klapper View Post
Just to clarify copyright vs license: The creator always has the copyright on what I've created, and it's him/her who decides how weak or strong the license for other people is. It's his/her decision only as he/she created it, no matter whether it's music, books or software code.
Pushing the creator (e.g. me) into using a specific licence means reducing my personal freedom and pushing me into something ideological. And “Ideology is a brain disease,” to quote Jerry Rubin. Hence I'm happy that there are different licenses available, from weak to strong, and that the creator (Nokia, you, me, whoever) can choose.

I respect the creator's decision and can of coutrse question it.
If good arguments are provided creators revise their decisions. For example Carsten filed requests with very good arguments in Bugzilla to open the code of example statusbar-alarm-dbus-api (#4560). Hence Nokia has changed that code to open source.
That's how it works, and I like it.
I know the different between licence and copyright.

In your example, the problem is:
We need to provide evidence for have the freedom.

Normally, these are criminals who are deprived of liberty, if their crimes are proved by facts.

Make Free software don't prevent to make money.

It just prevents the creator of the software is put in a dominant position and it re-balance the powers.

To understand how to make money with free software, we must understand this phrase:
"Because you make money of it, not with it."


Ok, I'm going to sleep.

At this afternoon.
Last edited by korbé; 2009-10-04 at 22:27.
 
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-10-04 , 22:53
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#252
Originally Posted by korbé View Post
I noticed that here, some people (like you), regardless of the evidence, if it remit in question the decisions of Nokia they refuse to hear (or see) reason.
You should read more. You're wrong. Getting to be a trend I see.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-10-04 , 22:55
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#253
Originally Posted by Andre Klapper View Post
Now is your freedom more important than the freedom of the creator to choose the licence he/she wants?
EXACTLY.

It's sheer arrogance to assume the creator's preferences are moot.
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johnkzin is offline johnkzin
2009-10-04 , 22:58
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#254
Originally Posted by korbé View Post
I noticed that here, some people (like you), regardless of the evidence, if it remit in question the decisions of Nokia they refuse to hear (or see) reason.
Pot. Kettle. Black.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-10-04 , 23:02
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#255
I'm done with it anyway. When one side of the debate is 100% entrenched in an impractical extreme, there's little chance of consensus.

EDIT: sorry, that was too broad. It's not the debate here that's polar as much as some participants.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-10-04 at 23:36.
 
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ewan is offline ewan
2009-10-04 , 23:19
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#256
Aside from the ethical problems with non-Free software there's a pretty solid argument that including it in Maemo is a bad tactical call for Nokia themselves. Firstly, one of the platform's major (and virtually unique) selling points is its openness, and compromising that weakens it as a selling point. Secondly, Maemo is competing for developer attention with the iPhone, Android and (somewhat less) Symbian. All the while it remains the oddball little OS that runs on the Nokia Tablets that's a tough battle to win. Getting Maemo onto cheap Chinese knock-offs, onto decent Taiwanese phones and, preferably, a few netbooks, would be a good thing for the sustainability of the platform as a whole, and a good thing for Nokia themselves.

Nokia are fundamentally a hardware company, and they're good at it, and making the best Maemo-running kit there is should be enough to sell the phones if Maemo is an attractive platform at all. By way of analogy, I have a Thinkpad laptop - when I bought it it must have cost about twice what you'd pay for a cheap machine of the same headline spec, running the exact same software. The Thinkpad's worth it because it's quality kit.

Raising the barriers to other implementations of Maemo by keeping strategic bits of the software closed will differentiate the Nokias from the mass market; the risk is that consumers will simply say "I don't want that - it's weird and different."
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-10-04 , 23:35
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#257
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
Getting Maemo onto cheap Chinese knock-offs, onto decent Taiwanese phones and, preferably, a few netbooks, would be a good thing for the sustainability of the platform as a whole, and a good thing for Nokia themselves.
That's highly speculative and reliant on too many "perfect world" dependencies that never really pan out... unfortunately.
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bobthebuilder is offline bobthebuilder
2009-10-05 , 00:06
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#258
Originally Posted by ewan View Post
Aside from the ethical problems with non-Free software
What ethical problems?
What system of ethics makes it unethical to make money for hardwork?
To sell a license to use software?
Heck I love open source software, but closed source software is not evil, programmers need to eat food too.
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johnkzin is offline johnkzin
2009-10-05 , 00:16
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#259
Originally Posted by bobthebuilder View Post
What ethical problems?
What system of ethics makes it unethical to make money for hardwork?
To sell a license to use software?
Heck I love open source software, but closed source software is not evil, programmers need to eat food too.
And companies that fund programmers have a fiduciary responsibility to their owners/share-holders/etc. to make a return on investment from the funding of those programmers.

Regardless of whether or not Nokia (or any company) is making the best choice, or the correct choice, it's their right to choose to license the code that they own in the manner that they choose. Unethical would be denying them that choice.
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olighak is offline olighak
2009-10-05 , 01:00
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#260
Originally Posted by bobthebuilder View Post
What ethical problems?
What system of ethics makes it unethical to make money for hardwork?
To sell a license to use software?
Heck I love open source software, but closed source software is not evil, programmers need to eat food too.
Exactly. This is a strange discussion, but probably to be expected as the traditional linux crowd is not as most people.

If someone has a "philosophical" problem with paying someone a license fee for a closed-code piece of software, then with the N900 they´ll be able to probably do without doing so.

For us other ones, who don´t have much time program anything, nor care, we can buy licenses for those thing´s we´d like. I hope the open code guys understand that not everyone who buys a N900 is going to turn into a linux coder or a open source fanatic...

I for example like the following applications and am very willing to pay someone a license fee for coding them for my upcoming N900, and do absolutely not care whether they are open or closed code:
Worldmate / Psiloc World Traveller
Handy Weather (1.0 - 3.0 versions with precipitation)
Handy Clock
Quickoffice-like application to open MS Office (yes sacriligious!) documents on my N900

That´s all I´ll need. I know ftp and telnet programs are out there and both the Opera browser and Firefox exist for linux so I should be good.
 

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