I suppose I would like to chime back in here.

Cyker, a consumer device like this IS a toy. If you want to do serious development, you will use a laptop/desktop. Nokia doesn't try to tell us that this is more than that. Why does it lack focus? It does a LOT. That, by definition, is the opposite of focus. I certainly can't deny it lacks some functionality here and there. I posted about the lack of PIM. But I think most of the limitations are software based. And guess what, Nokia made this open source so that we can figure out ways to add functionality that we want.

I bought this IT, not because it did one thing well. I had a 160 GB Archos and it played video well. It sucked at everything else and was closed source and highly dependent on a company releasing features you had to pay extra for. They were nickel and diming us.

JProkaza, respectfully, the review was lacking at best. Scott is an iPhone fan boy and says as much. Don't get me wrong, my wife has an iPhone and its r-e-a-l-l-y cool. I have fun with it at times. There were a couple of instances where the tone of the review was flippant and frankly takes away from the integrity of the review. I'd like to address a couple of areas that I have a different opinion and a couple of areas that were indeed good points.

Lack of gestures. It is true that this isn't included...by default. I have seen a post on this site (and I am looking for it now - I seem to be flaking on the correct search keyword to find it now and if one of the regulars can help...) where there is work being done on a feature where you can flick gesture and scroll through lists and have have the scroll continue to do so as it winds down over a few seconds after you make the gesture.

The reviewer seems to forget mentioning many areas where there are differences of similar functions that would be of interest to people who are thinking of purchasing one or the other. But really, are there? If I needed a new cell phone and had no IT, I would CERTAINLY buy an iPhone. It's very compelling. But the Nokia ITs are not FOR people who need a cell phone. I am happy to leverage my existing cell phone's data plan for additional connectivity.

The reviewer forgot to mention the n810 can properly display pages that contain Flash elements, Real Media, Windows Media and use nifty and useful browser plug ins like AdBlock Plus. Apple's workaround is not really a workaround. Perhaps at some point, Apple will include Flash support in an update which would be a welcome one for their users.

While my keyboard sometimes has a little "give" in the center, it does not permanently "bow" out. I am sure if I had a chip on my shoulder for the n810 as a competitor to the iPhone, I could easily apply enough pounds per square inch to damage the unit while typing.

The n810 does not have a cool landscape to portrait flipping mode. But moving forward, much of our video will increasingly be landscape, so the lack of it is fine with me and will be fine with the bulk of people using it. being stuck in portrait would be bad.

The iPhone has no support for DUN support via bluetooth. I can't tether my devices I want to share internet access with to the iPhone's (US) unlimited data plan. Which leads to an important point... These two devices aren't really competitors. One is a phone, the other is not. The iPhone packs an incredible punch AS A CELL PHONE. The IT purposely left that out and I wouldn't have bought my n810 had it. I don't need a second cell phone. I needed a device that did almost everything I wanted it to as a compliment to my Blackberry 8800. If the iPhone adds BB server/Outlook integration, BT DUN support, true Flash support and 3G+ capabilities, I will certainly wait in line for one.

I am writing this post on my Mac. I bought my wife her iPhone two weeks ago. I too, am a big fan of Apple. You mention we should Google for Scott to read his other articles. If he is so very unable to do an unbiased review on a product and insists on doing such lackluster reviews, I don't know I am interested in anything he has to write. The review is woefully short. Really, it should be a number of pages long. He, like many other reviews of many things, lists a summary that doesn't even properly summarize his own article. Comparing this to the iPod Touch would have been more appropriate or at least comparing the n810 to both. There is no doubt that for the money, the n810 blows away the iPod Touch.

Scott also forgot to mention (if he is going to compare Apples to oranges) that the n810 does not require an monthly fee of $60 to $120+ to have full functionality. And before someone chimes in about Nokia's charge for full functionality of the bundled GPS (which Scott actually forgot to mention as another bad point about the n810), there are third party GPS mapping apps that are completely free.

On an iPhone, when I want to go from one feature to another, the last app I was working on closes. On the Nokia tablets, it does not. But if I want to multi task on my n810, I have the option of keeping apps open and sometimes bogging down the processor, or closing them as I go along. And really, choice is why I like my n810 so much. I get to pick and choose how I want to use my IT. I can do things that an iPhone can't dream of right now like remote desktopping into machines anywhere, using it as a remote control for my media system, install p2p apps, install apps to crack my in law's WEP when they forget what it is and don't want me to reset their router, print to a printer on my network, easily browse through shared folders on my network, play a huge variety of audio or video file types, do video chatting, make VOIP calls, use a real GPS that regularly does not place me 500 yards away from reality....my fingers are getting tired. My point is that the n8x0 series opens up a piece of equipment that has a huge potential to open source developers to work in parallel or separately from Nokia developers to add functionality to this device that could make many, many people salivate. I am not a developer, but I appreciate and can not thank enough, the people who put so much hard work into continuously improving an amazing device. Apple will soon open up their SDK and allow for similar improvements in usability and feature sets, albeit with a device that offers less potential in terms of hardware features. If I am in the market for a new cell phone, and in a few months i will be and Apple adds hardware and system and third party software I feel is sorely missing for the corporate market, I'll also own an iPhone.

The n810, much to Nokia's chagrin, ISN'T for everyone. But it can be for a lot of people.

Lastly, do you pay Scott in iTunes gift cards?

As the original creator of this thread, I was about to chime in to address Jprokaza from the mobile computer site's post about why I don't think his writer was fair on his review of the N810, but I think dubiousmike has made all the points I was going to make about this article's myopic approach to the potential of the N810.

I just don't think the article was ready for prime time in that it was biased from the start and didn't even want to give the N810 a fair shake, but I'd guarantee you if the reviewer received the N810 from Apple, he'd be an apologist to its limitations, but instead because he disliked the Nokia from the get go, he failed to even come close to objectivity with this review.

Hello,

I’m the author of the apparently-mostly-offending review. I wouldn’t ordinarily enter into a thread like this because, as Julian Prokaza (the Mobile Computer editor) has pointed out, I do this for a living and, frankly, defending every last word I write would soon prove uneconomic. Also, he’s already made a good fist with his response.

However, I’m going to make an exception on this occasion because the feedback has been rather polarised. Some respondents agree with me but most don’t. That’s fine. In return, I agree with some of the criticisms thrown in my direction while disagreeing with others. I’d love to go through them all point by point but I simply don’t have the time – there are a thousand-plus readers to this one writer. That said, if Julian wants to commission (ie, pay) for the super-long response I’d have to prepare, then you can have it – feel free badger him to spend the money.

So, why am I here? Well, because in among the many fair comments lurk some frankly silly accusations.

The first @dubiousmike: “I am sure if I had a chip on my shoulder for the n810 as a competitor to the iPhone, I could easily apply enough pounds per square inch to damage the unit while typing.”

This comment suggests I purposely damaged the keyboard on my N810. Okay, I could’ve done that. Or more likely, the keyboard bowed of its own accord after just a few days’ use and I, as an experienced journalist, felt it report-worthy. Take your pick. If this suggestion weren’t so serious a slight then it would be laughable.

Second, @Callanish. This poster offered a guarantee that if this device had come from Apple I’d be an apologist to its limitations. Can I claim on this guarantee? As stated on the Mobile Computer website, only two things made by Apple have ever excited me, and the iPhone was the second. Put another way, I’m about as far removed from an Apple apologist as it’s possible to be. But because I’m open-minded I test everything with open mind. Even Apple stuff.

Some of you will doubtless be pleased to hear that I’m making regular use of my N810. I use it on the train, at work and in the bog (if Nokia’s PR is reading, they might want to give it a rinse when it’s returned). Indeed, I like it more now than I did two weeks ago. When Nokia kits it out with a SIM slot (and perhaps a better keyboard) I might even buy one.

Scott Colvey.

maybe after a month you'll like it even more and put this whole now what were we arguing about thread to bed!!

Scott,

I think it's unfortunate that you chose only two points to reply about, both of which you found to be personal digs and nothing at all about why you would choose to ignore so much about an item you were reviewing.

In regards to the keyboard, I found when I first used it, that there is some give depending on how you hold it. I was concerned about it, but had quickly found a way that is comfortable for me to hold it and actually be able to type fairly quickly. I still haven't found I can type as quickly as with my Blackberry, but I am sure the speed in which I can type on the n810 will improve. But you should not make assumptions about my statement. If I did indeed begin using the n810 "not liking it" from the start as your review would imply, I would not have been careful to change the way I typed. Even if you were doing stress testing on the unit to see if it would indeed bend and not slide back in snugly, there are far more responsible ways to say it for you not to imply that the keyboard would bend for everyone. Because not everyone would continue to use it in a manner that would obviously harm it. Perhaps a valuable service to your readers of your review would to then suggest a way to hold it and use it that would keep them from bending it. Did you call or write to Nokia asking if you had a problem unit and what would happen if users did happen to bend their n810 keyboard?

Statements in your review like, "So what’s the problem? Well, actually there are a few of them, but let’s be nice and look at the good stuff first. There is some, right?" has you wearing your intentions regarding the product on your sleeve.

Your post here on this site is almost half the size (word count) of your review. Its unfortunate for both readers and manufacturers that you aren't able to do any more than twice the review on products both they and consumers care enough about to read on your site than to reply not to any of the valid comments here, but just the two that you took offense to. I still can't help to think that your review was seriously limited because you went into it comparing it to something very different. I am sure if I wanted to write a negative review about the iPhone, I could only mention its shortcomings in less than 900 words too.

To your defense, you may have written a 4000 word review and your editor trimmed it down. But to say that the only goods are a "big, clear screen" and the backhanded "some touch-navigation browsing" is just irresponsible to your readers. Because then all of the other features would be the bad ones. But you somehow left out mentioning so, so many features. But perhaps your editor isn't interested in responsibility to your readers, but pounding out some content that contains searchable keywords people are interested to drive page views and ad impressions. Because frankly, even if your opinion differs from others and you don't place credence in many of the things that the n810 actually does, to not bring them up and to compare it to the iPhone just makes for a sham of a review.

Now, your grammar and style of writing is fine and I don't doubt your talents at writing an entertaining article. But to pen an 800 (edit: 871) word article on the n810, mostly comparing it to an iPhone, not mentioning or talking about so much of what it is makes what you wrote a fluff piece. Why not compare it to a Porche, an anteater or the Republic of China as well? Well, because that's ridiculous! And so is calling what you wrote a journalistically sound review.

Just in case you are going to write a review on the new 3G iPhone, I hear it doesn't play DVDs like a DVD player, record live TV like a TIVO or transport people in a gyroscopically sound manner like a Segway. You can use that if you want to... Your readers might find it very valuable in a review.

This analogy doesn't hold up. The HUGE difference between hardware devices like cars, toasters, lawn mowers, and devices like the N8x0 is that the latter are _programmable devices_. The hardware is there to provide a generic starting point, what the device can actually do is all about programming. There's really no such thing as "meant for this, and not for that", as long as you're not trying to go outside the fundamental hardware limitations - which isn't the case when we're discussing PIM or no PIM: the HW can do everything necessary, it even includes an alarm system that can wake up the tablet from power-off mode. Just like any PDA.

Not a good or bad enough review to be worth this much response.

Agreed -- if Nokia DID bundle PIM software and promised the ability to sync with desktops and web apps, fine. But Nokia made no such promise, so enough blaming a manufacturer already.

Want me to go on using the car analogy? How's this -- so many people whinge about the Lotus Eslise not having built-in aircon. Yes, it's an option, but the Lotus has made it clear that the way the car is positioned as a trackday toy, air conditioning is OPTIONAL. So, when it is optioned for, it works. If not, then blame the person who optioned the car such, not the manufacturer. Now, if someone optioned the a/c but the a/c fails to perform in the summer, then I would agree that that is a issue, i.e. a feature promised by the manufacturer that has failed to work.

Tell me, how did the iT PIM suite fail miserably if it wasn't supposed to be there in the first place? Now, think carefully before you answer, because by agreeing that the hardware could support PIM software (which I agree with), but Nokia has chosen to omit such a feature, you are fundamentally agreeing wth my point that users cannot and should not be blaming the manufacturer for a feature that was never promised or should have been there in the first place.

Great, so if Nokia does not build a PIM for it, why not get 3rd party? Why should Nokia develop and support PIM software for a device that they did not see fit to include one in the first place?

FYI, cars ARE programmable devices these days, to some extent.

My PC and notebook hardware is capable of motorsport datalogging, yet I see no such application in the OS or bundled as a 3rd party software supported by LG/MS. Should I start blaming them for for not including such software? Just like any good trackday data analysis tool.

Oh, my analogy holds up alright.

Just read the replies to the reviewer and the editor. Thanks, guys, you took the words right out of my mouth!

dubiousmike, one of the rare times we're in agreement! This calls for a celebration