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Posts: 220 | Thanked: 129 times | Joined on Nov 2009
#21
Enjoying this review and the thread. Your list doesn't look too bad considering what other users have been up against with continuous spontaneous reboots and whatnot.
 
Posts: 234 | Thanked: 160 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#22
Originally Posted by ArnimS View Post
Old people want things to stay like they were when they learned stuff: "Why use a gui media player when i can do all that from the command-line?" That might sound like an extreme example but people actually do this. Does that mean a gui is 'reinventing the wheel'? Or is it adding tires to the wheel?

Android effectively ditches linux for something new, Maemo bends as far back as it reasonably can to support the old linux 'ecosystem' along with innovating the new.

A good framework for mini-apps fills a role in that ecosystem. It does not make economic sense to go through the linux/autotools/debian/autobuilder/extras-devel/-testing/extras process for a mini-app that takes 30 minutes to write. Sure you can walk to Washington DC. But it would be wasteful to file your federal income tax that way.

Perhaps a better analogy is found in the growth of industrial technology. Early tools were primitive, and the production process was labor intensive. The results were characterised by craftsmanship and indivuality. As time went on, more and more tools became standardised and 'high level'. This lead to more efficient production, but less 'craft'.

You can still buy hand-made furniture if you want. But not many people are going to do it for free.

A hearty thanks for the UQM port, and best wishes for 2010.
You mostly cover the bases of what I was going to say. To be more specific, the biggest thing holding this device back is applications. Right now, the current curve is pretty high, in that requiring C++ and one of the frameworks (GTK+ now, QT in the future), plus the need to compile it for the processor isn't exactly friendly to bringing applications that aren't already written for some flavor of Linux to Maemo.

One thread that was real popular here for a while were people asking if Java would be coming to the N900. People wouldn't be asking that if there wasn't some perceived need for it. As for your battery concerns, it is slightly overblown from the standpoint that if you really don't want to use such applications, you don't have to. In my eyes, it doesn't seem to be any different to Java/.NET verses native code applications. Both can coexist in the same operating system.

You seem to have some fear that this is going to become a similar situation as Android. I don't see that at all, particularly when Nokia has a few generations of this operating system and it wouldn't make sense to completely ditch those who have been supporting it. No, what I see is a company who wants to make this platform more attractive to developers beyond the geek community.
 
Posts: 12 | Thanked: 10 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#23
Originally Posted by ArnimS View Post
A good framework for mini-apps fills a role in that ecosystem. It does not make economic sense to go through the linux/autotools/debian/autobuilder/extras-devel/-testing/extras process for a mini-app that takes 30 minutes to write. Sure you can walk to Washington DC. But it would be wasteful to file your federal income tax that way.
Sounds like an argument for gDesklets written in Python

Too bad gDesklets require GTK+.
 
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Posts: 1,559 | Thanked: 1,786 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Boston
#24
More digressions

Guys, you're taking my comments out of context again . Please don't. I'm not a luddite nor do i begrudge a web designer the chance to make applets using the tools he has to work with, because development is fun. Progress is great, isn't it? These days anyone can paste together scripts and a UI and be a developer. Make apps, not love! It's a mini cultural revolution.

Great.

Now, let's just ignore the fact that there's already a far more elegant and less syntactically neurotic option available in python. No matter:

My chief concern was and remains the efficiency of the maemo software. I want a bigger screen and better battery life in a similar package; a whole lot of people who are not currently in the potential market for a Maemo device want a smaller device that will last through the day. These two evolved products are not achievable without increasing the efficiency of maemo (as i laid out in excruciating detail in the other thread). Adding a built-in javacript layer can either be neutral to that end or detrimental, and in either case absorbs resources that could be spent directly on improving the existing system.

I'm repeating myself again.

Anyway, i think this comes down to a difference of opinion on which is better for the success of maemo: better (ie sleeker) devices, or app proliferation. I can agree to disagree on this because the jury is still out.

The Z in the room

This was my second Sunday using my Z and N900 both at church, and the experience has been intersting. I will wait a couple more weeks until i have had a chance to pit Rapier or the new Qt scripture reader app against my current Z reader before i write up this use case experience.

Upgraded servers and user

This weekend i have been busy finishing the prboom port to fremantle in my Maemo time. I also grabbed the old gweled source from garage and fixed it up for uploading to the fremantle autobuilder. I was pleased by both my own increased understanding of the debian package system, maemozation, SDL, etc., and the new autobuilder server. The whole process with gweled took less than an hour.
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Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ

***
Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
MAME: an arcade in your pocket
Accelemymote: make your accelerometer more joy-ful
 
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Posts: 23 | Thanked: 2 times | Joined on Aug 2009
#25
Flandry,
Hitting the "thanks" button isn't enough. I really appreciate your perspective, tone, and content. Wish there were more of your type on this forum!
It's amazing to me that there isn't an obvious--even Noika-sponsored--spreadsheet solution. GoogleDocs works reasonably well, but requires an active internet connection. I fly often, and would like something I could use during those long flights! If you're most always online, I recommend giving GoogleDocs a try.
 
Flandry's Avatar
Posts: 1,559 | Thanked: 1,786 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Boston
#26
I got hit with a big bag of reallife. That, combined with my desire to maintain some reasonable standard of quality in the posts i make in this thread, has kept me from reporting my ongoing experiences. I've been using the N900 for almost exactly two months now, and it has become an integral part of my daily routine.

I could just continue to enjoy (or sometimes not: let's be honest here) my N900 without piping the output to anywhere but /dev/null, but the whole Meego thing i'm just picking up on now (did i mention i've been busy?) has jarred me from the pleasant little perch i had found in maemoland.

So, before the disenchantment sweeps away any objectivity i might have mustered at some point, let me make a braindump of my N900 life to date.

Meanwhile, back at the lab...

I ordered a form-fitting, two piece rigid case and a pack of three screen proctectors from Ebay. The total charge was around $10, delivered. A few weeks prior i had spent about the same on a Blackberry leather holster clip someone recommended. While it worked more or less as claimed, it has been cast off ever since the case and screen protector arrived: it's impossible to beat front pants pocket for convenience.

The extra device protection was really essential for the N900 to become a part of my life: not until i could throw it in my pocket without a second thought, or hold it without a nagging subconscious fear i was going to drop it, could i treat it as more than a shiny toy.

Surprisingly (again, enabled by the peace of mind due to case and protector), i have almost immediately started using it in lab in much the way i used my Zaurus. Well, almost... (to be continued)

Responsiveness

The responsiveness has been a mixed experience. There are times when it brings visceral pleasure to flick around the desktop and browser windows. Then, there are times when the UI becomes a serious pain in the posterior. I have especially had trouble with the app switcher being unresponsive. On multiple occasions everything has just gotten slow, with no clear hints in top as to what is going on. (Edit: Probably a memory leak in a widget.)A restart generally fixes the problem; at least, i think it would. I guess at some level of decision making to which my own consciousness is not privy, i defy the possibility that my phone could possibly be like an old broken box of Windows 98.

Requiem for Zaurus

I was shocked to open up my Zaurus at the lab to look up some data and find the battery almost dead. Then i realized it had been a couple weeks since i had last used it. The displacement took about a month, but it was clear after the first couple weeks that the process was inevitable.

When i opened up the Z, it felt incredibly spacious, incredibly easy to hold, and... dead. There's no better way to describe it. The N900 is like a living entity--almost a pet--compared to the bland business end of the Z. Staring into that screen, i realized that it had never felt like a trusted sidekick. Trusted Swiss Army knife, yes, but not sidekick.

It was amazing how fast the kinetic scrolling became the habit. Going back to the Z was a shocking reminder of how a good UI is intuitive and more or less instantaneously assimilated.

Missing in action

There are still some reasons to get out the Z. I still haven't even cracked the seal on the Spreadsheet Issue. I have been involved in maemo.org enough to know that there are a few things one can expect, and not having a good spreadsheet app seems like one of those. Sometimes it's better off not knowing...

It's bad enough that on the occasion when my laptop is indisposed, i've entered data into the note app of choice, only to transfer it to PC spreadsheet later. I guess that's called playing with one's mental blocks.

Besides the spreadsheet, the other frequent role my Z still played was on weekends. It had a permanent position in my Sunday Best pocket: it was my pocket scripture.

For a month, the Z came along with the N900 as a wingman. The ridiculousness of having two portable computers on the table in sunday school must have gotten to me, because the Z gets left behind now.

Leaving a gap still unfilled.

Rapier is utilitarian, but it gets the job done. The sunday school manual is in an FBReader compatible format. The problem is the other books. Well, tithing my time for gospel-related development on Sabbath seems reasonable. I put together a python parser that screen scrapes the entire web edition of the books and makes a coherently-linked local mirror that i can copy to my N900. With a proper CSS, it makes MicroB a fairly decent reader...

All that's left now is the hymnal, which is available in PDF. I had intended to use epdfviewer as the basis of a hymnbook app, but after an incident this last Sunday that left me lamely trying to page to the right hymn in the PDF reader, i discovered that someone got around to porting Qt4-libpoppler. I've not looked at Qt before but have been wanting to. With an example at hand and an evening when i wasn't good for anything else, i got a basic Qt app built and packaged that will take a hymn number it a prompt widget and open it in a kinetically-scrolled window.

Needless to say, i am rather impressed with Qt and look forward to having time to play with it more.

Maps and camera and dialog spam, oh, my!

The time has come for the ugly. There's no delicate way to put this: Ovi Maps for Maemo is a smelly turd of half-digested, half-chewed corporate failage.

I was, of course, not completely unaware of this, but when my quest for a Z/phone replacement that could also get me unlost on my bike took me away from Android's obsession with clouds and webapps, landing on the N900 product page was like a sunburst.

Alas.

Now that i've indulged myself with a rant about the one real beef i have with Nokia over the N900, let's get back to the actual experience...

As i said, i wasn't unaware of the reputation of "Ovi Maps" on Maemo by the time i actually had a sim card and started toting my N900 about. I finally had the courage to pull it out and try to make it do its thing while riding in my roommate's car.

First of all, the search is useless. Maybe there's some arcane art to it working (like paying for a data plan when i have no need for one with a pocket computer, perhaps?), but it had no success finding the street, or city, or anything. I finally gave up and scrolled the map to where i knew we were going, and tried to set that as the destination.

I already had the location test gui installed and knew enough about the problems of Ovi Maps to open that up and use it to keep the GPS live long enough to get a lock.

Then, there was a red dot. And it was on my location. And it followed me.

Reveling in the godlike power i held, i tried (unsuccessfully) to get the app to show a route. The euphoria abated fairly quickly, and was replaced within minutes by an almost overwhelming urge to throw the thing out the window.

It popped up, in close succession, three prompts to connect to the network. And then, it did it again. The map disappeared behind the infuriating prompts just in time to miss turns. It was relentless.

It is awful.

There is a bug report for this. Quim stated there just before i found the report that a fix is coming. We'll see.

A similar problem affects the camera. This can be resolved by turning off network positioning and geotagging, but that's really not the answer to UI behavior that gets in the way of using a camera for taking photos when desired. Both photo ops and turns have been missed due to this ridiculous UI design.

This is really too bad, because i've finally gotten myself back in the habit of responding to the mental cue "That would be a nice thing to photograph" with "and hey, look what i happen to have right here..." The best camera truly is the one you have with you.

In spite of fighting with the UI, i have taken a lot of nice photos and some very timely video clips with the N900. The built-in sharing feature has seen some use, too. This is definitely where things are going with the mass market for point-and-shoot cameras: integrated into a phone. Not great, but good enough. Some iPhone-toting friends have been impressed by the photos i've shared.

Alright, the worst is over.

Flandry, App Maintainer

Some of the other bad decisions Nokia made with the N900 don't affect me...or wouldn't if i wasn't trying to be a masochist by supporting a handful of FOSS game ports to Maemo. As it turns out, large sections of Europe don't have up and down arrow keys on their phone because of their keyboard localization. Yeah, i know...

One of the ways i've been squeaking as a wheel is in the bug report i created to fold all those raised against my apps into: one asking for an "official" supported solution to the Nokia keyboard localization bug.

Well, not too surprisingly that got nowhere. With some help from a script the Duke Nukem maintainer uses, i added a dirty hack to PrBoom and UQM that switches the keyboard localization to "us" when the apps are active. I also modify the screenblank time in UQM to avoid blanking during dialog and flight. I got lazy and only made that option disable itself when exiting, rather than just switching away.

Of course, i managed to crash my N900 while in UQM a few weeks later and now the screen blank time is stuck at something rather long. Poetic, isn't it. It wouldn't be hard to change it back if it was a real issue for me.

Interestingly, the integration of the N900 into my routine has shifted my development priorities. I had UQM ported and primped for Maemo before i even bought the N900, and Gweled and PrBoom followed closely after the New Year before the SIM card was in the device.

Now, i am finding ways that it could be better, or problems to resolve. Real life killed the video game, hmm? The silver lining for those patiently waiting for me to finally get SDLMAME into -testing is that i'm finally getting my feet under me and wrapping my head around the various protuberances that are Maemo.

Meego?

I came to maemo.org in October with no knowledge of the Debian package system and a very long hiatus from typing "make" or coding in any language that doesn't use whitespace or angle brackets for structure. I hadn't used IRC more than a few times, or run a profiler. The ride up the learning curve and around the bends of the maemo.org community has been exhilarating and exhausting. Somewhere along the way i became a moderator of Games and dabbled moderating Brainstorm before it became apparent there are deeper issues there than a basic moderator can resolve. I've had arguments and shared laughs, and come to know some really interesting people.

And i'm not sure i have the energy or the will to do it all over again under as asinine a banner as MeeGo. Obviously this is a wait-and-see situation, but i am suddenly sympathetic with the embittered veterans of multiple Maemo steps who prognosticate dire events and see hobgoblins in every new initiative from Nokia. I have no desire to learn the (afaik) inferior RPM after putting this much time into learning the nuances of Debian: i have used a Debian-based linux distro since leaving the gentoo camp years ago due to it being too hands-on for my tastes. At least knowledge of Debian packaging has some use to me outside of Maemo maintaining.

Well, that was a lot of diarrhea of the keyboard. It is a relief to document this here for my own benefit, if no one else's.

Cheers to any readers. It's been nice to be a part of your community. It's provided a needed outlet for me to restart aspects of my own skillset and mental processes gone stagnant.
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Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ

***
Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
MAME: an arcade in your pocket
Accelemymote: make your accelerometer more joy-ful

Last edited by Flandry; 2010-02-18 at 16:04. Reason: Linked a bug report for one of the problems, finished the thoughts on the camera
 

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Posts: 13 | Thanked: 5 times | Joined on Feb 2006 @ Oregon
#27
Flandry,
Great detail on your user and development experience. I have dabled in writing scripts but nothing more. Can you offer your opinion on purchasing the N900? I already own one N700 and two N800s.

Regards
 
Flandry's Avatar
Posts: 1,559 | Thanked: 1,786 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Boston
#28
Why to buy (or not)

I got the N900 because my phone had had it and my Z was getting really old and worn. I had to get a new phone and the N900 was the best option at the time. My advice is as follows: if you are up for a new phone now and don't see anything else you like better, and have acquainted yourself with the feature set of the N900, get one. If you don't need a new phone now and multitouch and/or portrait mode is very important to you, wait.

I can tell you i'm happy i have the N900 and there are a few aspects of it that may not be carried over to the next generation that i would miss:
  • Transflective LCD display (possibly going to OLED...but not that likely, i suppose)
  • Resistive (stylus friendly)
  • Keyboard (i suppose there will probably be some model with a keyboard, but maybe not the next one)
  • No DRM.
I also suspect the IR port will go away, but that's not a big deal for me.

Here are some things the N900 doesn't have that i would like to have and could possibly be in the next step device:
  • Magnetometer (compass)
  • Better camera sensor/flash design
  • USB host-type support
  • More hardware buttons
  • Bigger screen
  • More keys
Okay, so the only one that seems likely is the compass, but the others could happen at some point, in some Meego device, but probably not all in the same one. I really wish the N86(?) camera parts were in the N900, because i think that would truly be "good enough" for most people as their only camera. As it is i still find myself thinking about buying a cheap P&S to replace the A95 that died a while back. I don't need A95 quality shots but the N900's aren't quite good enough.

If you already have an N800 and don't want/need a new smartphone, i don't really see the draw of the N900. If i didn't want a convergence device, i'd still prefer the Z over the N900.

Breaking News: Ovi Maps less broken after latest update

Unless i ended up in some mode i've not been in before, the latest update fixed the network prompt spamming problem that Ovi Maps had. It was very refreshing to be using the app today and have an unobtrusive banner pop up that said "One or more networks may not be available."--and that was all.
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Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ

***
Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
MAME: an arcade in your pocket
Accelemymote: make your accelerometer more joy-ful

Last edited by Flandry; 2010-02-24 at 16:28. Reason: IR Port
 

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Posts: 369 | Thanked: 167 times | Joined on Mar 2010
#29
I'd like some details on what you did for the Hymnal. Also some suggestions for the Scriptures. I downloaded a big archive with all the Standard Works in html, and it works, but it's not nearly as slick as what I had on the iTouch. It sounds like you've made some progress with the Hymns, though.
 
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Posts: 1,559 | Thanked: 1,786 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Boston
#30
Sunday edition:

I used the hymn app today at church but it won't go through autobuilder without fixing some libraries in the repos, and that i don't have time to untangle at the moment. You can expect it to be in the repo by the end of June to use as a reference if you like. I have a thesis to write or i'd be on it today now that PR1.2 is on its way.

The plan was to eventually put a package in the repo that could create sword modules in automated fashion from the online edition of the standard works, and thereby shoehorn it into Katana without violating any copyrights. However, that's going to take some modification of the sword engine, and that might entail a local fork because i don't see the changes going in upstream (just a little whiff of bigotry from the general direction of the sword maintainers lol), so i might just as well make a separate reader if it turns out to be more trouble than it's worth to hack sword and get the functionality i want. When it comes right down to it, Sword doesn't seem to offer much of what I see a good scripture app having. Too bad.

Or i might go try to find a job and spend my Sunday free time doing something besides sitting in front of a computer and the rest of my time earning a living. Who knows?

Happy Sabbath.
__________________

Unofficial PR1.3/Meego 1.1 FAQ

***
Classic example of arbitrary Nokia decision making. Couldn't just fallback to the no brainer of tagging with lat/lon if network isn't accessible, could you Nokia?
MAME: an arcade in your pocket
Accelemymote: make your accelerometer more joy-ful

Last edited by Flandry; 2010-03-28 at 23:31.
 
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