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sharper is offline sharper
2009-11-13 , 23:05
Posts: 189 | Thanked: 121 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#3141
Originally Posted by jaark View Post
Yes, Nokia is not the retailer and is separated from the retailer
Er well actually you couldn't be more wrong. Unlike both Motorola and HTC Nokia has an actual retail operation running in many countries. Did they even manage to communicate reliable information through their own retail division? Nope.


How many times do I have to repeat myself?
You can repeat yourself all you like it doesn't make it true.
 

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jaark is offline jaark
2009-11-13 , 23:08
Posts: 316 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on May 2006
#3142
Originally Posted by sharper View Post
You have absolutely no idea whether that's true.
Yes I do. There is no way that a delivery originating from one point in the globe can reach thousands of retailers at the same time and that all of those retailers have identical turn-around times. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can think that this is a reasonable idea.

You either tell them all to deliver as soon as possible, in which case you get uncertain delivery time. Or you tell them to delay their deliveries until a certain date, thus having stock in retailers' warehouses that could easily be in the hands of users.

Tell me, what miracle of logistics or time-travel have you invented that gives a third option?
 
sharper is offline sharper
2009-11-13 , 23:09
Posts: 189 | Thanked: 121 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#3143
Originally Posted by Shiggy View Post
If Nokia could have clearly stated "you can pick up the N900 from your local Nokia store on this date and from other online retailers at this date" I would have been perfectly fine, they could even have considered the shipment time to retailers which isn't hard to get now a days with tracking technology and GPS. Hell I could be wrong, someone in the shipping industry let me know.
Shipment dates are known reliably. I mean it's literally people's jobs to know things like "What the weather will be on our shipping route" for obvious reasons. Of course exception circumstances can delay things but we're not talking about that.

I am personally not that bothered but I am concerned about Nokia's ability to engage its customers and react to what they want. Sure when you're used to how Nokia does business then the N900 is no different to other releases but it's still extremely confusing and frustrating for the average consumer who just wants to know when the thing will be out.
 
les_garten is offline les_garten
2009-11-13 , 23:09
Posts: 1,283 | Thanked: 370 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ South Florida
#3144
Originally Posted by Moley View Post
Sorry I just went off the thread N900 shipping delayed. Secondly, this has only occured as so many people were kicking off that Peter said they'd announce it when they started shipping, which true to his word he did. It may have been better not to tell us anything so we heard about it when our suppliers emailled us.

Personally though I welcome the additional information as I know the end is nigh. It seems to me that Nokia's main problem is creating such a desirable piece of tech that people can't wait to get hold of it.

If you want a phone tomorrow, by an Iphone.
Why don't you compare and contrast the release of the DROID vs the N900?
 
les_garten is offline les_garten
2009-11-13 , 23:11
Posts: 1,283 | Thanked: 370 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ South Florida
#3145
Originally Posted by sharper View Post
Well that's somewhat less impressive when it's almost three months since the device was announced. In the meantime I've seen the Motorola Droid go from announcement to release in a very smooth and transparent fashion.

The N97 was announced Dec 2008 and not released until June 2009.

Nokia is failing to deliver its products in a timely fashion and I seriously doubt anyone in the company is patting themselves on the backs over it. I also don't doubt they're working to do better.

Where they're not striving to do better is with consumer transparency with their release process. As I mentioned already this is a feature of every Nokia release - the "release announcement" is made but nobody can find the thing for sale. I see no indication at all Nokia considers this a problem or that it's something they're endeavouring to fix.

If Nokia thinks I shouldn't care when I get the product (as demonstrated by them not telling me) then why should I pay €500+ for it?


I strongly suspect Nokia does not share this view.
One of the reasons why they might do this BS is to try and clawback the market share they have been losing. So you announce the product before it's anywhere near ready to keep someone from going to the competitor and make him wait. I would have bought a DROID no doubt, but I've got to wait this out.
 
sharper is offline sharper
2009-11-13 , 23:13
Posts: 189 | Thanked: 121 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#3146
Originally Posted by jaark View Post
Yes I do. There is no way that a delivery originating from one point in the globe can reach thousands of retailers at the same time and that all of those retailers have identical turn-around times. I have a hard time seeing how anyone can think that this is a reasonable idea.

You either tell them all to deliver as soon as possible, in which case you get uncertain delivery time. Or you tell them to delay their deliveries until a certain date, thus having stock in retailers' warehouses that could easily be in the hands of users.

Tell me, what miracle of logistics or time-travel have you invented that gives a third option?
It's fairly simple and obvious and no time travel is required.

Nokia knows very well when it plans to ship the N900 to India (for example). It doesn't have to figure out exactly when the product will make to every retailer in India but it does know when it will be generally available - that date is a function of when it plans to start shipping to that market and the normal length of supply chain to hit retail. They could easily say "Available in India from January 15th 2010" and then people can go ask their local retailer when they're getting it.

There's absolutely no need to hold back the date until every single sales outlet in the market has it. You just need a date for general availability.

Instead people in India have no clue at all when they're getting an N900. Neither does anyone in any other country albeit those in Western ones have an idea they're getting it soonish maybeish.
 
jaark is offline jaark
2009-11-13 , 23:16
Posts: 316 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on May 2006
#3147
Originally Posted by sharper View Post
Er well actually you couldn't be more wrong. Unlike both Motorola and HTC Nokia has an actual retail operation running in many countries.
More wrong? Oh you mean like 'Nokia UK Retail' - which is actually MPD. It still doesn't change the fact that stock will take a different amount of time to get from Korea to the US as it would to Japan.

You can repeat yourself all you like it doesn't make it true.
OK then. You explain quite how a company can arrange an accurate global release date or dates without either spending a shed-load of time and money estimating and producing a massive release data booklet taking into account the particular logisitics realities of different countries and retailers or without imposing artificial delays on stock being released to the public.
If you can, I guarantee that you will make millions as a distribution chail manager for any global company.
 
att is offline att
2009-11-13 , 23:20
Posts: 388 | Thanked: 1,340 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ Finland
#3148
Originally Posted by Laughing Man View Post
Wow really? I thought this was just a one time thing from Nokia. So everytime they release a product like this it's the same cycle?
Read the old N810 threads from this forum. Yes, it's the same every time
 
sharper is offline sharper
2009-11-13 , 23:21
Posts: 189 | Thanked: 121 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#3149
Originally Posted by jaark View Post
More wrong? Oh you mean like 'Nokia UK Retail' - which is actually MPD. It still doesn't change the fact that stock will take a different amount of time to get from Korea to the US as it would to Japan.
Nevertheless it makes your "Nokia is not the retailer" point look silly when Nokia is much closer to being the retailer than the organisations you're comparing it against. Do you think the time to get things from Korea to the US is not known?


OK then. You explain quite how a company can arrange an accurate global release date or dates without either spending a shed-load of time and money estimating and producing a massive release data booklet taking into account the particular logisitics realities of different countries and retailers or without imposing artificial delays on stock being released to the public.
If you can, I guarantee that you will make millions as a distribution chail manager for any global company.
What do you think companies have logistics and operations departments for? They plan all this out. Do you honestly think Nokia throws their output onto the boat, sets it off over the horizon and then says "Well gee I hope they get somewhere soon so we can actually make money selling them"?
 
jaark is offline jaark
2009-11-13 , 23:23
Posts: 316 | Thanked: 150 times | Joined on May 2006
#3150
Originally Posted by sharper View Post
Nokia knows very well when it plans to ship the N900 to India (for example). It doesn't have to figure out exactly when the product will make to every retailer in India but it does know when it will be generally available - that date is a function of when it plans to start shipping to that market and the normal length of supply chain to hit retail. They could easily say "Available in India from January 15th 2010" and then people can go ask their local retailer when they're getting it.
You are asking for exactly what has happened though - they have started shipping stock from their factory and the initial distribution points have a good idea of when they are going to receive stock. These will have been passed as estimates to the intermediary distribution points and the retailers will almost certainly have an estimated time when the can get hold of stock.All of these dates are different depending on where they are and who they are dealing with. Transport delays can and do happen so retailers are very aware that these are estimates. Some of them pass the estimates on to customers, others don't - that's up to them. There is nothing that Nokia or Peter can do to give you a guaranteed date from your retailer. Asking otherwise is to ask for delay in any delivery to a date incorporating all of the possible delays to all of the retailers in the cintinent.
 
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