I've tried contacting Google and they're not being responsive. It started almost two days ago and with a 7 day window to process all orders, we're almost halfway to losing all that money. It's especially frustrating, when Google holds all the cards and refuses to allow communication with them directly.

I see a class action lawsuit in their future. You can't screw with people's incomes, offer no communication, service or solutions and expect no blowback. I'm about fed up.

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt

As much as I would love to see a Traditional Linux (TL) tablet from a productivity standpoint, I don't think it's necessary.

The structure of the FS, traditional applications, a rich scripting environment, a modifiable kernel through modules, regular multi-tasking, etc, etc, etc.

Rather than start from the beginning, why not extend Android? It already has mass distribution, and implementations on swaths of product.

At its core, Android runs a stripped linux kernel and standard libraries -- It's essentially linux, with some different software than is found in traditional distributions and a unique FS structure. It would be FAR more prudent, to create a bridge between the two OSs and fill in the feature gaps missing from Android, rather than start from scratch and hope for traction.

And please don't say that it's not possible. It has already been done with VNC and chroot.

A deeper integration may take creativity, but I assure you, if you can shoehorn Windows apps into Linux, you can certainly do the same with TL apps in Android.

On the flipside, it would be great to give Android to TL in the same way that Android has been integrated into RIM's QNX platform. Imagine having access to the Android market on your Ubuntu distribution? Certain apps/games would be quite welcome. I would use it tomorrow, given the opportunity.

It's all open source.

I don't believe that this Android vs. Linux needs to exist. I believe that they can quite literally coexist at the same time, on the same hardware, and much more quickly than trying to develop a mobile linux variant from the ground up and hoping that somebody will notice in this hugely competitive marketplace.

Originally Posted by wmarone

Something derived from a traditional Linux style of distribution would necessarily be less dependent on the efforts of a single company for all the various components. Many vendors are eyeing the Google dependency as a weak point in their business plans.


All of which we've had, and are having to regain. The FS and many of the incompatibilities are a result of Android's originally closed source nature.


As has been stated before, Android goes where Google wants it to go, and paramount on their list of tasks is where vendors that play along with them want it to go so long as it lines up with their goals.



Google started from scratch, and got traction using their weight. Instead, I hear it suggested that the open source community somehow has nothing, and would be better off building on Android. That seems more than a little silly to me, especially when the community has no real hope of influencing Android's direction.


Which is absolutely nothing special, and to a great degree needless duplication due to different libcs, windowing systems, and the inability to migrate Android video drivers to other Linux platforms.


Why can't it be the other way? Why not shove the lesser Android platform into a Traditional Linux context that was here first? Why do we have to create a WINE for Linux apps on Android? Why let Google come in and usurp all the progress of the last 20 years (inb4 bashing of Linux open source community.)


I reiterate my point that it should be the Android platform that is subsumed. And the Playbook support shows that Linux is irrelevant in the grand scheme of Android things. The only problem is adding userspace stand-ins for all the silly kernel dependencies that were added to Android long ago (back when it was closed source.)


Not all "open source" is the same. Highlighted brightly by Google's withholding of Honeycomb, despite whatever comments they spout.


Android vs. Linux will exist, so long as Google is the sole holder and driver of the platform and all but a few of its parts. And you will definitely not get the Free Software types on board (of course, these days in the mobile space they are the enemy.)

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt

I appreciate your viewpoint, but don't have the energy to debate ideologies -- Android's handling and very clearly irks you.

It always surprises me how many individuals spring up resisting change.

We say that it's good to have a market free for competition and innovation and then when something is done somewhat differently, they are targeted as the enemy, labeled as dishonorable, and influenced (if not only through certain angry voices) to return to the old way of doing things.

I can find common arguments against all of these innovations notoriously led by proponents of methods preceding them.

I believe the answers as to why change is so hated to be found not in these debates but in the study of psychology.

Originally Posted by daperl

This change which you speak of, which isn't really change, is not about the study of psychology, it's about the study of animals:

Humans vs. sheep

Originally Posted by wmarone

Then do not bring up points like this. You seem to be fishing for agreement rather than having a discussion.