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JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2015-01-22 , 20:23
Posts: 285 | Thanked: 1,900 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#3211
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
Yes, my phone is being tracked by default. By my provider, by my ISP, by various law enforcement agencies... Does that mean that I should be happy with Yet Another Company added to the list?
It depends:

- what are they doing with that information
- what is the extent of your personal extremism on the issue

In Jolla's privacy policy it is stated that the information is used mainly to improve Jolla's services, which at least considering the amount of often-not-so-constructive criticism should not be something to be despised. But if your take is that absolutely nothing should be collected and they should only have that often-not-so-constructive criticism as a source of information to improve things just because collecting information is plain wrong per se like it's all black & white, then I'd say you are being extreme. But of course, why make things difficult if with small effort they can be made impossible....
 

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nodevel is offline nodevel
2015-01-22 , 20:49
Posts: 752 | Thanked: 2,808 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Czech Republic
#3212
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
Besides, if Jolla really wants to track me so much, why do they need my account? They already have my IMEI.
Touché.


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pichlo is offline pichlo
2015-01-22 , 20:59
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#3213
JulmaHerra,
  1. No one is criticising anything. We are asking a valid question.
  2. If you take every case when someone has as opinion different from yours as "criticism", then the people around you have a difficult life indeed.
  3. For your information, "constructive criticism" = "criticsm with suggested alternatives". Whether you like those alternatives or not is another topic but that does not make the criticism not constructive.
  4. If you really insist on interpreting this as "criticism", then I would like to point out that the suggested alternative is staring right in your face: do not require an account.
  5. Just in case you have missed point 1, this is just a question. No answer has been given yet, only "why does it matter".
  6. I like my Jolla despite all its shortcomings. And believe me, there are quite a few. I have also a lot of respect for Jolla the company. But it does not mean I should think they are infallible and untouchable. If you do, then with all due respect, it is you who is extreme, not me.
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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2015-01-22 , 21:33
Posts: 1,986 | Thanked: 7,698 times | Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio
#3214
Ok, I may be going too far off-topic here, but let me pose this query: so far as I know, the only two mechanisms available to treat intellectual property as a salable product to the public are (a) associate the IP with an individual (the system used by app stores today) or (b) associate the IP with a physical object (used by DVD, BD, and such media).

Associating the IP with an individual requires some form of human identification; but if you've got your IP tied to a physical object, you can sell the physical object without knowing anything about the buyer. So, would it be possible to construct an app store based around the sale of IP tied to some sort of physical objects? Say, a dongle or something you'd use to authorize use of the app after it was installed on the device. (For example, you could sell the dongle anonymously at retail stores or the like; then, use it to authorize something downloaded anonymously from a repository on the net.)

Anyway, just an idea here. It seems that, for the most part, folks generating IP today wish to sell it directly to individuals, and for the most part, individuals today seem happy purchasing IP individually for themselves. So long as that is the case, some form of single-user licensing is going to need to take place...
 
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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2015-01-22 , 21:47
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#3215
if you scroll from left to right and having message tab below you can see a big fat black mouse pointer over the minimized messages app.

Not the best image of It but..atleast its visible...does they use some compononent incorrectly for the messages app so this can appear?...its an easter egg.

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Last edited by Dave999; 2015-01-23 at 06:30.
 

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pichlo is offline pichlo
2015-01-22 , 22:19
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#3216
Copernicus,

The fact that these are the two systems in most common use today does not mean that they are the only two methods possible. You had a few suggestions offered in your own thread. There were at least two cases I know of (Datawiz and Sygic) who were selling software through Maemo repositories, an app "store" with no concept of a user account. Before Maemo, I bought some Palm OS software through sites like Handango, again with no user account. More in my comment in the TJC thread. Sorry, I have not worked out how to link to a specific comment, so I have to link to the whole thread.
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pichlo is offline pichlo
2015-01-22 , 22:23
Posts: 6,453 | Thanked: 20,983 times | Joined on Sep 2012 @ UK
#3217
Dave999,

This is a known issue. Jolla has not commented yet.
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Yminus is offline Yminus
2015-01-22 , 23:45
Posts: 18 | Thanked: 22 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#3218
Originally Posted by JulmaHerra View Post
In Jolla's privacy policy it is stated that the information is used mainly to improve Jolla's services,...
That is what all claim - I guess the NSA officials also believe that they collect data only to improve their service. This justifies nothing.

Originally Posted by rcolistete View Post
Jolla has said many times that it doesn't give the account data to anybody (NSA, other companies, etc).
Can you please post a link - I would like to read such statement, maybe it helps to dispel my doubts
By the way, Jolla's privacy policy says:
We may share non-personal data (provided that it is anonymous) to select third parties. And about the importance of such metadata an NSA official said: ‘We Kill People Based on Metadata’.
But stop - no I do not fear to be killed by the NSA if I register a Jolla account
However, there are serious concerns that speak against data collection, e.g. de-anonymization.

Originally Posted by nthn View Post
Do you have even the slightest clue how laws work?
I am not a lawyer - are you? If so, please share your expert knowledge about this issue and help us to understand why an account may be necessary. (Instead of insulting people only because they have concerns you don't share or understand.)
 

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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2015-01-22 , 23:57
Posts: 1,986 | Thanked: 7,698 times | Joined on Dec 2010 @ Dayton, Ohio
#3219
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
You had a few suggestions offered in your own thread.
Yes -- the suggestions offered there mainly involved an "activation code" or key; while this allows the software to be downloaded anonymously from the Maemo Extras repository, it still requires you to give _me_ some specific information about yourself (at the very least your e-mail address and some form of payment) in order to receive the code. So, this still doesn't allow for anonymous purchase of IP...
 
JulmaHerra is offline JulmaHerra
2015-01-23 , 07:11
Posts: 285 | Thanked: 1,900 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#3220
Originally Posted by pichlo View Post
JulmaHerra,
No one is criticising anything. We are asking a valid question.
No one? Then I guess comparing Jolla to Apple and Google, stating that their policy is no better than theirs doesn't count as criticism (though you were not the one making that accusation)?

If you take every case when someone has as opinion different from yours as "criticism", then the people around you have a difficult life indeed.
My approach is to look at the arguments behind opinions. Some are valid, some are not and weighting them against each other will always result opposing opinions as we are all more or less human. I do recognize myself as not being the easiest person though.

For your information, "constructive criticism" = "criticsm with suggested alternatives". Whether you like those alternatives or not is another topic but that does not make the criticism not constructive.
I agree about that.

If you really insist on interpreting this as "criticism", then I would like to point out that the suggested alternative is staring right in your face: do not require an account.
Yes you did, however there are arguments against that approach and I'm also not convinced about the reasoning behind the idea that requiring an account is bad per se. Also, that approach would be limiting factor when developing services (not just those we have now but new ones too), so tradeoff wouldn't be that nice. It's not worth it for just for the sake of paranoia.

Just in case you have missed point 1, this is just a question. No answer has been given yet, only "why does it matter".
Most of the reasons can be found from Jolla's privacy policy. It's clearly stated there what kind of information they collect, why and what they are going to do with it.

I like my Jolla despite all its shortcomings. And believe me, there are quite a few. I have also a lot of respect for Jolla the company. But it does not mean I should think they are infallible and untouchable. If you do, then with all due respect, it is you who is extreme, not me.
Agreed on that one too.
 

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