pagis is offline pagis
2015-01-31 , 12:33
Posts: 233 | Thanked: 532 times | Joined on Sep 2011
#341
tbh, I would prefer Jolla to use more sources towards native app development than pay M$ in order to conform to an optional standard, besides support for exFAT can be offered as a s/w upgrade.

the more we discuss this issue the more we get lost in detail.
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2015-01-31 , 13:14
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#342
Originally Posted by pagis View Post
... besides support for exFAT can be offered as a s/w upgrade.
That's what they said they would do by introducing the stretch goal. We paid for their resources to go into supporting exFAT (both development and licensing) in an upcoming software version.

The point of the discussion is not if exFAT is morally acceptable or not. That was discussed long ago and Jolla made it clear then that there's no alternative to exFAT and that that a few individuals can't change that.

The point of the discussion is that Jolla now made a U-turn and no longer aims to support SDXC-cards even though people paid for it. It's not about exFAT. It's about how you build and destroy trust.
 

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rcolistete is offline rcolistete
2015-01-31 , 13:51
Posts: 1,269 | Thanked: 3,961 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#343
Originally Posted by aegis View Post
That is an answer but it is not what the poll asked. It doesn't propose another open source filesystem. It suggests excluding exFAT which @Stskeeps even said was not something the poll was about.
Why do you refuse to read the 1st answer, which is best voted (with 143 votes) ? It explicitely cites BTRFS as default for > 32GB and exFAT as paid package :
> 32 GB formatted with btrfs, and optional LUKS encryption.
If possible, paid-for exFAT license package to support SDXC.
The Sailfish community have had more than 1 month to show its opinion. The majority with active voice has chosen no-exFAT support :
https://together.jolla.com/question/...-jolla-tablet/
__________________
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Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
 

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rcolistete is offline rcolistete
2015-01-31 , 13:59
Posts: 1,269 | Thanked: 3,961 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#344
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
That's what they said they would do by introducing the stretch goal. We paid for their resources to go into supporting exFAT (both development and licensing) in an upcoming software version.
No, you haven't paid any perk to have exFAT support. There was a stretch goal to have 128GB card support. Not the same thing.

Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
The point of the discussion is not if exFAT is morally acceptable or not. That was discussed long ago and Jolla made it clear then that there's no alternative to exFAT and that that a few individuals can't change that.
Seriously ? Here Jolla explicitely says alternative to exFAT :
We understand that many of you would not want to support a proprietary file system for good reasons. So here's a suggestion especially for you:
We have put up a specific poll here on TJC about better supporting open source file systems on microSD cards in Sailfish OS.
This is mainly for taking in suggestions from you on what we should practically do here. We don't claim to know all the answers so this is an opportunity for you to tell us what we lack or should do differently. As examples these can include formatting options for open file systems or encrypted microSD card (LUKS).
What this practically means: we want you to tell us which type of alternative open solutions we should include in the Jolla Tablet.
Together in the Community you can also figure out what needs the most work within Sailfish OS in this specific field.
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
The point of the discussion is that Jolla now made a U-turn and no longer aims to support SDXC-cards even though people paid for it. It's not about exFAT. It's about how you build and destroy trust.
Nobody has paid for SDXC card support in any perk. And the support was for 128GB cards, no explicitely SDXC cards.

It is about :
- reading what was published by Jolla, not twisting the words to comply with each personal preferences;
- respecting that the majority of Sailfish active community voted for no exFAT support.

By the way, in December 2014 I was asking for exFAT support for Jolla Tablet.
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
 

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szopin is offline szopin
2015-01-31 , 14:02
Posts: 2,076 | Thanked: 3,268 times | Joined on Feb 2011
#345
Originally Posted by lokai View Post
As long as Jolla does not offer to order single phone with reduced price for tablet-only backers this is what I propose to do.

So everybody who already backed a tablet and now wants also a Jolla phone just order the bundle and resend the tablet-only package (just deny when delivered).
So you will receive your money back. And have the tablet and phone to reduced price.

I really hope they read understand learn react.
But I really do not think so
Or just use the code FOSDEM2015 for purchasing the phone and you get the same 50euro off of its price
 

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rcolistete is offline rcolistete
2015-01-31 , 14:10
Posts: 1,269 | Thanked: 3,961 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#346
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Will I be able to complain if my microSDXC-Card doesn't work in the Jolla tablet as advertised by the manufacturer of the card? In terms of speed and lifetime?

Cards come pre-formated in a way that best matches the physical layout of the card memory. If you either re-format (or worse: re-partition) the card, you need to know all the necessary parameters. Else the allocation blocks of the file system will cross the boundaries of the cards' physical blocks, resulting in lower speed and reduced lifetime because of unnecessary read-/write cycles. It's quite tricky to find out the physical parameters of a given card, much of this is guesswork.

Now if the tablet includes a one-size-fits-all unisex card formating tool, chances are that the card you bought because SanDisk claimed it'd reach 48MB/s is in fact much slower once re-formated to ext4 in the tablet. Where do you get support now? Jolla? SanDisk? The SD Association? Wo will make your card reach 48MB/s again? Who will take it back and return the money?
This community isn't newbie at all about SD/miniSD/microSD usage in mobile devices.

The TMO community has large experience with miniSD/microSD cards in Nokia N800/N810/N900, like formating, partiotining (to use Easy Debian, for example), and also in Jolla smartphone. So let's compare benchmarks of microSD cards using different file systems. For example, we can discuss this issue here :
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92490
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MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
 

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rcolistete is offline rcolistete
2015-01-31 , 14:16
Posts: 1,269 | Thanked: 3,961 times | Joined on May 2011 @ Brazil
#347
Originally Posted by Morpog View Post
https://together.jolla.com/question/...-jolla-tablet/

Lets see how many people want exFAT support. Upvote it!
-1 now. So even this new post in TJC doesn't have support from the majority of Sailfish community.
__________________
Python, C/C++, Qt and CAS developer. For Maemo/MeeGo/Sailfish :
Integral, Derivative, Limit - calculating mathematical integrals, derivatives and limits. SymPy - Computer Algebra System.
MatPlotLib - 2D & 3D plots in Python. IPython - Python interactive shell.
-- My blog about mobile & scientific computing ---
Sailfish : Sony Xperia X, Gemini, Jolla, Jolla C, Jolla Tablet, Nexus 4. Nokia N9, N900, N810.
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2015-01-31 , 14:31
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#348
Originally Posted by rcolistete View Post
No, you haven't paid any perk to have exFAT support. There was a stretch goal to have 128GB card support. Not the same thing.



Seriously ? Here Jolla explicitely says alternative to exFAT :




Nobody has paid for SDXC card support in any perk. And the support was for 128GB cards, no explicitely SDXC cards.

It is about :
- reading what was published by Jolla, not twisting the words to comply with each personal preferences;
- respecting that the majority of Sailfish active community voted for no exFAT support.

By the way, in December 2014 I was asking for exFAT support for Jolla Tablet.

There's no point talking to you, as you simply don't listen or comprehend. We've been through all of this before:

a) SD>32GB by definition is SDXC+exFAT. There's no way you can read a stretch goal that promises support for µSD-Cards >32GB as "saying nothing about exFAT".

b) The so-called "community poll" was clearly worded as poll "about better supporting open source file systems", not about poll pro or con exFAT. Quite on the contrary: " Exclude X from device isn't something doing that", they said, and addressed those who "really seek to have an option". The point of the poll was to find out "which type of alternative open solutions we should include in the Jolla Tablet". It was clear they were searching for popular alternative options in addition to exFAT (which was already set in stone via the Indiegogo campaign).

c) Even though the poll was supposed to bring up choices of alternative file systems, 2 of the three most voted answers opted for exFAT. (The most popular answer doesn't even have 150 votes - is this "the community"? If so, the community voted for exFAT support in this answer.)
Last edited by benny1967; 2015-01-31 at 14:52.
 

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nodevel is offline nodevel
2015-01-31 , 14:33
Posts: 752 | Thanked: 2,808 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Czech Republic
#349
Originally Posted by rcolistete View Post
-1 now. So even this new post in TJC doesn't have support from the majority of Sailfish community.
Oh my... Some people still don't get it.

This is not about "majority of Sailfish community" - it is about the majority that is not on TJC. There is nothing to vote about - Jolla had announced SD card support up to 128GB (which, as you quoted a Jolla employee, requires an exFAT support), people have bought (contributed) the device with that in mind and then after the campaign, Jolla cancelled the feature.

And since you are referring to the answer on TJC with about 140 votes:
  1. the amount of votes is laughable in comparison of how many people bought the tablet after the 128GB SD card (=exFAT) announcement. They voted with their wallet.
  2. people who expect their cards to just work are not likely the ones spending time on TJC
  3. I did vote for the answer myself. As aegis pointed out, the question wasn't about not supporting exFAT, but about adding open source alternatives. There was no question about not supporting exFAT, because Jolla had already announced it (whether it was good or bad) so there was no coming back. I voted for that question because it would be nice to offer a btrfs alternative, while still supporting the standard for regular people who don't care about open source, just about working solutions.

So be careful before jumping to conclusions about people who have voted for the "btrfs+optional exFAT" answer.
Last edited by nodevel; 2015-01-31 at 14:42.
 

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elastic is offline elastic
2015-01-31 , 14:35
Posts: 229 | Thanked: 725 times | Joined on Sep 2010 @ Permanent cruiser - either water- or motorways
#350
For all the travelling photographers - maybe something like this ist an even better solution for you and it's available for less than € 25,- ...
http://www.kingston.com/us/support/t...s?model=MLW221
Using it for ages for my iPad (Apple isn't even thinking about implementing any card reader hardware ... ) and it works perfect - it's also possible to copy files from a card to an USB drive (even to a HDD) directly
 

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