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sophocha |
2010-02-27
, 22:09
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Posts: 559 |
Thanked: 166 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
@ Cyprus
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#31
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Originally Posted by maxximuscool
I`ll be happy my Budha friend when Nokia brings me my navigation software that they promised, and then who knows, maybe I`ll become a Budhist!
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2010-02-27
, 22:12
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Posts: 861 |
Thanked: 734 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
@ Nomadic
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#32
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Had this above, but made sense to move it after posting
EDIT/ADD:
Maybe it doesn't make sense to some, but the idea of making several distributions of Linux is about as inefficient as it gets when it comes to app development and service enablement. Qt allows Nokia the ability to get away from the hardware except for developing the APIs which support specific features. After that, its up to developers to take Qt and run with it.
The future of computing for Nokia is MANY platforms, TWO app spaces (web and Qt), and several types of devices. Use services to tie these together and play by person/context relevance and you have what kind of company Nokia will be. MeeGo makes this more possible, and the hardware and community foundations of Maemo makes it long-term viable.
I don't get why its so hard to see, but then again, I've always done computing differently. Maybe I just get a different window seat to the action.
Looking at what I've quoted, is Maemo 5 the glue or is the Qt layer the glue? I under the impression that it is the latter.
Last edited by ARJWright; 2010-02-27 at 22:15.
EDIT/ADD:
Maybe it doesn't make sense to some, but the idea of making several distributions of Linux is about as inefficient as it gets when it comes to app development and service enablement. Qt allows Nokia the ability to get away from the hardware except for developing the APIs which support specific features. After that, its up to developers to take Qt and run with it.
The future of computing for Nokia is MANY platforms, TWO app spaces (web and Qt), and several types of devices. Use services to tie these together and play by person/context relevance and you have what kind of company Nokia will be. MeeGo makes this more possible, and the hardware and community foundations of Maemo makes it long-term viable.
I don't get why its so hard to see, but then again, I've always done computing differently. Maybe I just get a different window seat to the action.
Originally Posted by gerbick
gerbick, thanks for your sensible and knowledgable posting; there needs to be more of that around here some days.
And THAT is what people are afraid of. It's that darn simple... people don't know when Maemo 5 will stop being able to run this so-called "glue"... as it stands, it could be very soon. With it unconfirmed, no roadmap that says when... speculation will be as rampant as it is.
Looking at what I've quoted, is Maemo 5 the glue or is the Qt layer the glue? I under the impression that it is the latter.
Last edited by ARJWright; 2010-02-27 at 22:15.
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2010-02-27
, 22:14
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Posts: 4,556 |
Thanked: 1,624 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#33
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Originally Posted by ARJWright
The OS itself matters from a bugfix, security standpoint, and official application support. E.g. Maps, microB, the email client, etc. Unless Nokia decided to split that also from the operating system so operating system support simply means the underlying internals itself. Which is extremely unlikely.
Why does the OS matter if the applications work concurrently on MeeGo and Maemo 5 devices with Qt?
If Qt is the glue, and MeeGo (formerly Maemo 6) devices are going to have significantly different hardware, wouldn't it be a smart gesture for Nokia to keep the N900 in play with updates to the Qt stack?
Now, if Qt gets to a point where Maemo 5 can't be used as efficiently with it, wouldn't that be a case for something like a Mer project to come that rebuilds the shell/app space in Qt to better eek compatibility and performance from N900 devices?
I hear and see the fears, but for some reason, much of this seems incredibly blown way off base considering what we know about the platform and what it does and will support.
Or, is my PR language coming out too, and I'm just blasting hot air?
But yes, having application support separate from the operating system for 3rd party applications does improve things.
Originally Posted by kojacker
I have a feeling it's more that Nokia doesn't want to use the manpower than its more an impossibility. Heck for all we know they could have some people working on it. For example, say there were 20 Maemo OS developers, now Nokia put 3 of them on bugfixes for Maemo 5. 1-2 towards putting Meego on the N900, and the rest towards Meego and future product development. Perhaps that's why Nokia won't say anything as to if the N900 will receive Meego, because they don't know themselves yet. But this is pure random thought.
That's the odd thing, because from the MeeGo roadmap it suggests it can be put on nearly any configuration of hardware from a TV set to a toaster, so when you read comments that suggest it's too early to know if it will run on the n900 - that feels really odd. Surely it must be able to.
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Originally Posted by ysss
They're maemo and MeeGo...
"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
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2010-02-27
, 22:17
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Posts: n/a |
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Joined on
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#34
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Originally Posted by ARJWright
That is one darn good question. From my consumer-only standpoint, I see Qt as the road forward, allowing me to get more apps, more features down the line that might usually be considered next-generation exclusive.
gerbick, thanks for your sensible and knowledgable posting; there needs to be more of that around here some days.
Looking at what I've quoted, is Maemo 5 the glue or is the Qt layer the glue? I under the impression that it is the latter.
The Maemo 5 OS is a dead end. So having Qt as the bolt-on ability to keep getting app support, features, et al... that's all people can lean on at the moment. Not until the OS has a clean upgrade path confirmed.
So to answer your question, from my stance, I'd say that Qt is the glue. Not the OS... not this time. Just my opinion.
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2010-02-27
, 22:20
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Posts: 376 |
Thanked: 56 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#35
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Isnt QT for the lesser capable devices too like the older Symbian models ?
I read it that QT is just to aid developers to write for other devices and not just meamo devices
at least thats what the marketing video shows on Nokias site
I read it that QT is just to aid developers to write for other devices and not just meamo devices
at least thats what the marketing video shows on Nokias site
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2010-02-27
, 23:03
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Posts: 18 |
Thanked: 14 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ anchorage, ak
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#36
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Qt is an application framework which can be used as an abstraction layer between code and an OS sort of like Java so that you can write software for many systems at once. It's been around for quite a while and its most common use was writing software for Unixy systems and Windows at the same time. Its association with maemo and meego is a very small part of what it is.
As for nothing running except Qt on the N900, that's simply untrue. QtIrreco is a good example of software based on Qt running on the N900. Unless the next meego device has an IR transmitter, it's only going to be able to run on the N900, too, even though it could be "ported" pretty much by recompiling it and repackaging it for future devices (assuming LIRC supports them, too).
Saying Maemo 5 is a dead end is like saying Windows XP is a dead end. Vista and 7 have the same app frameworks that XP had so when someone goes to write software, unless they need to use something specific to Vista or 7, they are, by default, writing software that works on XP as well. Sure the newest games don't run but it's not like your current software breaks. I imagine your N900 will break long before the protocols that the software is based on changes.
As for meego running on a TV... Android runs on the nook but you don't see it and you can't go to the android market. I imagine meego running on a TV will be meego with a heavily modified interface running on a TV and it really won't make any difference to the N900 since you won't be watching TV on your N900 or controlling it with a remote.
Last edited by joa; 2010-02-27 at 23:04. Reason: clarification in Qt explanation
As for nothing running except Qt on the N900, that's simply untrue. QtIrreco is a good example of software based on Qt running on the N900. Unless the next meego device has an IR transmitter, it's only going to be able to run on the N900, too, even though it could be "ported" pretty much by recompiling it and repackaging it for future devices (assuming LIRC supports them, too).
Saying Maemo 5 is a dead end is like saying Windows XP is a dead end. Vista and 7 have the same app frameworks that XP had so when someone goes to write software, unless they need to use something specific to Vista or 7, they are, by default, writing software that works on XP as well. Sure the newest games don't run but it's not like your current software breaks. I imagine your N900 will break long before the protocols that the software is based on changes.
As for meego running on a TV... Android runs on the nook but you don't see it and you can't go to the android market. I imagine meego running on a TV will be meego with a heavily modified interface running on a TV and it really won't make any difference to the N900 since you won't be watching TV on your N900 or controlling it with a remote.
Last edited by joa; 2010-02-27 at 23:04. Reason: clarification in Qt explanation
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2010-02-27
, 23:08
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Posts: 3,319 |
Thanked: 5,610 times |
Joined on Aug 2008
@ Finland
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#37
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Just so we are on the same page... Sorry to burst bubbles, but Maemo 6 is not MeeGo, and MeeGo is not a uniform platform so having 'it' will not guarantee you anything. In those terms, official support for either is not as relevant as it may seem at first sight.
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Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
Blogging about mobile linux - The Penguin Moves!
Maintainer of PyQt (see introduction and docs), AppWatch, QuickBrownFox, etc
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2010-02-27
, 23:10
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Posts: 2,355 |
Thanked: 5,249 times |
Joined on Jan 2009
@ Barcelona
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#38
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Originally Posted by joa
Not really. Microsoft aims for nearly-perfect binary compatibility between XP and Vista.
Saying Maemo 5 is a dead end is like saying Windows XP is a dead end. Vista and 7 have the same app frameworks that XP had so when someone goes to write software, unless they need to use something specific to Vista or 7, they are, by default, writing software that works on XP as well.
Nokia is at this moment aiming for GUI toolkit source compatibility, which is a much, much lower target. Still pretty high though.
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2010-02-27
, 23:17
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Posts: 18 |
Thanked: 14 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ anchorage, ak
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#39
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ABI vs source compatibility was a business decision for a closed source market. Binary compatibility isn't a simple matter but source compatibility isn't any simpler. I find compiling old software is a lot harder than running it. When software gets old enough, you can just run it in an emulator like palm chose to do. They're different targets for different markets and the N900's market runs Linux where binary compatibility has never been as high a priority as source compatibility. I don't really find one to be a lower difficulty than the other, though.
EDIT: and unless Nokia intends to tell Intel that they can only use ARM, I don't see how there was any choice in this matter to begin with.
Last edited by joa; 2010-02-27 at 23:25.
EDIT: and unless Nokia intends to tell Intel that they can only use ARM, I don't see how there was any choice in this matter to begin with.
Last edited by joa; 2010-02-27 at 23:25.
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2010-02-27
, 23:19
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Posts: 3,664 |
Thanked: 1,530 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Hamilton, New Zealand
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#40
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Originally Posted by sophocha
hahaha good one but i'm not a budhist anymore, i'm christian now. lol. proverbs that useful during the teaching of budha will remain useful until the humanity is lost.
I`ll be happy my Budha friend when Nokia brings me my navigation software that they promised, and then who knows, maybe I`ll become a Budhist!
