I think this is just a silly prejudice. Thousands of mainstream PDA-/Smartphone-/...-units are sold today that use a stylus. I dont see them used by GNU/Linux nerds. (At least not where I work.. the people there have trouble using any kind of computer.)

I firmly believe this finger thing is a trend that will fade away once people see its limitations. It may prevail in devices that are made for limited use (media players, phones, ...), but please don't forget that finger-based UIs have been around for quite a while now and never managed to get out of a very narrow niche. This is for a good reason.

I'd like to see a magic press-and-hold key or keys on reboot that shows what the device is really doing. That way, when i get into another reboot loop, i'll have a clue.

I'd like some more documentation, perhaps on a CD or something, that talks about what the apps really do. Media Player, for example, has a byzintine set of functions, half of which seem mislabeled. I was not able to create a playlist from a directory of mp3's (there are 350+ audio files in this book), despite new directions on this forum. Maybe that's Media Player's fault. But no attempt was made. On the subject of documentation, i'd really like to disable the script that strips /usr/share/doc/* while adding apps. The NIT is very good for reading.

I'd like Evince to be the standard PDF reader.

I'd like a larger boot flash drive - at least as an option. The n800 has the 'internal' slot, which gives you two addable SD slots. Perhaps the boot drive could be replacable. Then i could put in a 16+ GB SD.

The boot drive is a compressed linux filesystem. I might want a compressed filesystem for other SD drives. I certainly would like an encrypted filesystem for some drives. Perhaps FileManager could handle it.

I want real backup. If it goes into a reboot loop, and i have to reflash, i don't have to reinstall everything.

I want to be able to get an apps repository on CD. NFS mount of WiFi instructions (or script)., or something. That way i can restore the exact same version of some app - not just what happens to be out there.

How many prior-iPhone devices actually had fully finger-usable interfaces? Pretty much none, and certainly no mainstream, mobile device.
On the other hand, the iPhone was a tremendous success, and I don't believe this was just because of Apple's marketing hype. Think about it - the hardware of it is average at best, but the UI is a step ahead, not least because it ditched the stylus and is based on an interface that just doesn't need one.
I actually think it's a silly prejudice to think that stylus-less UI's can't be similar capable...

And note that I'm very far from an Apple or iPhone fan. In fact, I'm completely annoyed by the ongoing media hype that thing enjoys...

Well, I never used an iPhone, but I used an iPod Touch which should be very close to it in this respect. I found th UI unbearable. Couldn't type on the keyboard when the device was in portrait mode and could hardly type when it was in landscape mode. Very, very limited functionality because for each function, you need a whole video game to implement it. Takes ages to "scroll" through your music.

You know, even for those who can use it without becoming impatient after a few minutes, it's a good example of how limited a device must be in functionality in order to be used with finger gestures.

All I can say is that the N800's finger-sized keyboard works very well for me with my two thumbs - if it would be made transparent instead of opaque, I think this would work just nice. On the other hand, I find the stylus keyboard of OS2007 cumbersome, as it demands a solid surface to be used. But obviously, YMMV.

What? In which way? That sentence really doesn't make much sense without a couple of illustrating examples.

What has Apple's implementation of a long list for searching through music to do with the general finger/stylus discussion going on here? What hinders an UI designer to create eg finger-sized tabs for intelligently chosen letter groups to limit a long list?


Even though I can't prove it or back it up with studies, I dare to say that the vast majority of people who have ever gotten used to stylus-free UI's on small devices would never go back to a UI that requires a stylus for basic operations. Just a gut feeling, but one I'd bet quite a bit on.

1024x600
512 MB RAM (MUST HAVE)
faster CPU

Again: that's not a given, I don't care how much sense it makes in general or how many times it's repeated.

The contextual approach we had going for a while makes the most sense to me and many other users. I don't understand why it was scrapped but I won't speculate on it... I'll only say that it satisfied both camps and with no obvious intrusion or loss of functionality.

What you seem to fail to realize is that the right approach will look like a "pick one" to users depending on their personal usage. Touch the screen with your narrow stylus and the UI gives you stylus-based input modes. Touch it with your big greasy finger and you get big fat icons and gestures. Simple. Elegant. Effective. Win-win.

The first thing most people learn in schools when they are young is still writing...with a pencil or pen. Ergo, it is quite a natural format for involved input. What if your taking notes or writing poetry? My Treo650 just died because the qwerty mechanical keyboard failed. Chicklets and membrane keyboards, same potential. What about something like TEALSCRIPT from the Palm world? They have a 'write anywhere' capability and were not necessarily confined to a specific 'field' for input. The slide out qwerty keyboard at this stage, to me, is just copy-cat stuff. Its already been done numerous time and it is anything, but, efficient for high speed or spontaneous writing input. Sorry, qwerty was originally invented to specifically slow down input on old manual typewriters in order to avoid jams. How ironic is that? So more time and money and methods are toyed with around those themes that are not in the best interests of people effectively recording thoughts or notes or programming. As Karel has many times lamented about the Newton, it seems the whole industry has been stumbling blindly for well over a decade since. Palm was really the spin off of the orphans from the Newton team and it was certainly good in many areas but alas they have run out of gas at 2008.

I really don't think at this stage of computing that one has to pick an either/or scenario. OS2007 showed fairly well 'sensing and switching' between finger or stylus in regards to the interface. Why does everyone keep trying to make it one way only? Its like the PIM premise I have heard. I think it is all excuses. Finger is fine, and the ground has ALREADY been well paved a long time back for good stylus use. Each has great value, period. There is no competition, lets just get to effective application of them for the real end result. If your 'brain mapping' or practicing 'stream of consciousness' writing, I'm sorry tapping on a keyboard or using the screen with a finger is not really the choice for that flow to work well. To me this is core stuff for the consideration of the next evolution of a tablet to N900. How to input effectively and with fluidity in different requirements.

http://phasetwo.org/post/the-querty-myth.html

I don't buy the whole "we write with a pen therefore a stylus is natural" because there are so many differences. When Nokia comes out with a 8.5x11 tablet with a paper texture screen and an active or magnetic stylus then I'll reconsider, but passive screens are just not accurate enough to handle that kind of functionality cleanly.

Palm chose stylus input and it shows in their design. It was possible to cleanly use the device with only the 4 hardware buttons + dpad or the stylus. Their UI guidelines were designed from the ground up for stylus and they invested real time and money into handwriting.

And I'll agree with everyone that the Apple keyboard sucks, but since this was never intended to be an input heavy device it makes sense. But looking at it more holistically there are a number of really great ideas even in that sucky keyboard. The one biggest thing is the next/previous buttons so that you don't have to do a context/modal change three or four times just to enter a username and password on a webpage. Taking the Nokia OSK and adding an application controlled area would be a big start too so you don't have to change modality in IM just to see what the other person said.

On the other hand there are items like Application Manager that make a mockery of UI/UX issues leading to a needlessly complicated application. For instance you go to the menu->tools->Refresh application list... and then it prompts you to confirm, why? Check for updates... doesn't actually check it only lists and browse installable applications is a joke because they don't enforce any QA on extras.

That's just one application and I can brainstorm 3 or 4 alternate interfaces that would have been cleaner and clearer. I'm not talking about major rewrites here, just slightly different wrappers on the same functionality. It's obvious they don't see UI design as a high priority on the platform.

I don't think iontruo2 was concerned with any of the differences (and neither am I)-- I suspect his focus was on the important similarities. At the end of the day your complaints become moot; given that we do indeed learn to write with some sort of stylius, and continue that until death, it only stands to reason that any hurdles in the way of achieving that on tablets are simply opportunities looking for solution.

Which just goes to show it CAN be done. All it requires is commitment. And even then, your example still does not preclude a UI approach that uses context to switch cleanly and transparently from stylus input mode to anything else we can imagine.