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2009-09-27
, 01:38
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#452
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Originally Posted by volt
I cut out nothing. I simply highlighted what I quibbled with and poked a little gentle fun. The rest of your comments are still there for all to see.
You conveniently cut out an "if you feel anger" part, there, did you not?
This thread is not silly humor. It is Eldar Bashing.
And speaking of seeing, as far as I can see Eldar is fully capable of handling himself. I don't see the degree of bashing you do (and one emoticon does not a bash make), but then, everyone has his own perspective on things. Vive la difference.
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2009-09-27
, 01:39
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#453
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Originally Posted by hanh
Sure, some people want digital compass, USB OTG, DVB-H, 2 SD, HDMI, DRM. Oops, bloat.
I think it's inappropriate to say that a feature doesn't matter just because you or those you know don't use it, as such a small sample can't and doesn't represent all the possible consumers of this device. Like someone said earlier in this thread, as long as some people use that feature and will be affected by its absence, it should be included in order to reach the widest market possible (especially if the device is to be considered high-end and the best/most complete out there). For instance, I'm sure that the vast majority of the people who will buy the N900 won't use Xterm. Does that mean that it shouldn't be included?
It all comes with a price. Be it time to develop, cost of hardware, physical space, power usage, cost of developer paycheck.
Your argument is akin to "some people say..."
Sorry, means little to nothing.
What matters is:
1) how many people are affected? <- communicate with Nokia; vote on Bugzilla, Brainstorm.
2) is it solvable in software update? Is it important? <- market demand, popular vote; would give MMS the edge.
3) what are the alternatives? <- requires research and open mind; thinking outside of the box.
MMS and video chat are backwards compatibility related, and the former is much more popular than the latter. Hence, while its not a positive aspect the device doesn't support the latter, it is much less of an issue than not supporting MMS. Or, hypothetically speaking, an unstable web browser.
When I read someone say the phone sucks on N900 I think of OpenMoko or iPhone which could not make stable calls. I think of, for example, the lack of an address book. Coincidentally, those are aspects S40 can do well.
Does that mean your argument is invalid? Nowhere do I say that. But you know, sometimes we drop backwards compatibility or implement it later.
As for stuff like XTerm. Zero, you're talking about something which is there not something which is missing. First of all, its XTerm + patches optimized for Maemo. Second, I think if you require a shell, you require more additional software, and you know how to do that using the UI. So its not a big deal if the standard OS does not come with XTerm. Maybe a meta-package could be created for such array of tools.
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2009-09-27
, 01:43
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#454
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Originally Posted by volt
Hold on there, fella, it's hard to discuss something with someone when they're so unnecessarily defensive. You accuse others of hostility and adopt an apparently hostile tone yourself (not meaning the cut-out quote alone). How does your [overall] choice of verbiage contribute to a positive experience here?
IAlso, I did not know that there was a such thing as a standard "journalism defence" so I would be enlightened if you care to tell me what the flip side is.
Anyway, and I'm being objective here, credible journalism does indeed enjoy certain protections, but at the same time bears high responsibility. In my estimation Eldar has been a bit irresponsible but I'm not going to crucify him over it. Ce la vie, ce la guerre. The point though is that it's disingenuous to hype the protections accorded to journalists (ie, not revealing sources) while at the same time the journalist is playing fast and loose with materials provided by said anonymous sources.
EDIT: fixed last sentence, sorry.
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2009-09-27
, 01:45
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#455
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Well, I can tell you this... On each and all the alternatives I have considered to the N900, I can either use Opera Mini or Opera Mobile or both. The N800 also had Opera Mobile, if I understand things correctly.
Opera Mini is the main reason why I personally want some sort of java run time environment on the N900, the other would be that every other phone I have had for the last ten years has been able to run java applets. I gawked when I realized my new N810 didn't have any native java support. That possibly some guy in here may be able to port something isn't quite the same as Nokia delivering it, especially if that guy doesn't feel motivated to do it after all.
Now, don't get me wrong. Java isn't a dealbreaker to me. But it's kinda close. Much more than the smaller screen, phone functionality, rumored instability, MMS :roll: or price.
I think I must have things all wrong because I can't understand why nobody else seem to care about no java while they actually care about no equalizer.
Opera Mini is the main reason why I personally want some sort of java run time environment on the N900, the other would be that every other phone I have had for the last ten years has been able to run java applets. I gawked when I realized my new N810 didn't have any native java support. That possibly some guy in here may be able to port something isn't quite the same as Nokia delivering it, especially if that guy doesn't feel motivated to do it after all.
Now, don't get me wrong. Java isn't a dealbreaker to me. But it's kinda close. Much more than the smaller screen, phone functionality, rumored instability, MMS :roll: or price.
I think I must have things all wrong because I can't understand why nobody else seem to care about no java while they actually care about no equalizer.
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2009-09-27
, 01:46
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#456
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Originally Posted by volt
Nobody??? I've seen plenty of complaints about lack of java, especially in the goold old days here. Yeah, it was a really hot topic. Maybe now EQ is. We do like our music.
I think I must have things all wrong because I can't understand why nobody else seem to care about no java while they actually care about no equalizer.
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2009-09-27
, 01:46
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#457
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Originally Posted by Texrat
No, but it does make a silly-humor version of pointing-out anger.
(and one emoticon does not a bash make)
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2009-09-27
, 02:02
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#458
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Well, the cut-out quote is seriously ment. I would honestly be enlightened by learning what the other side to this "journalism defence"...
You accuse others of hostility and adopt an apparently hostile tone yourself (not meaning the cut-out quote alone).
Originally Posted by Texrat
...and there it is.
Anyway, and I'm being objective here, credible journalism does indeed enjoy certain protections, but at the same time bears high responsibility. In my estimation Eldar has been a bit irresponsible but I'm not going to crucify him over it. Ce la vie, ce la guerre. The point though is that it's disingenuous to hype the protections accorded to journalists (ie, not revealing sources) while at the same time the journalist is playing fast and loose with materials provided by said anonymous sources.
EDIT: fixed last sentence, sorry.
Yes, I guess you can say that Eldar doesn't hold up to some journalistic standards and is irresponsible. I am not sure. I believe him when he says he has some access to 2011 devices. I believe him when he says he knows stuff he cannot share without hurting the companies. His twitter indicated that he did get in a bit of an unpleasant situation with Nokia after the N900 leaks, so I do believe he tries to not cross a certain line with these companies. He depends on these companies. I don't know his sources, I don't trust his motives and I've seen him stick his tongue out at this community but I do believe he knows more than anyone else who is allowed to talk about it... I don't believe anyone mentioned the 56 or 920 before him.
While I don't particularly like journalists in the first place, the whole Iphone era makes me find it hard to believe a credible journalist exists any more at all, I believe one of the things they aught to do is protect their sources.
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2009-09-27
, 02:18
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#459
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Originally Posted by Texrat
Well, for the N900 I've only seen people talk about the no EQ. I do not read everything here, of course. I think no Java is odd for an internet device AND for a phone. Maybe people on here are mostly used to no Java cause they went through this discussion already on the last device.
Nobody??? I've seen plenty of complaints about lack of java, especially in the goold old days here. Yeah, it was a really hot topic. Maybe now EQ is. We do like our music.
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2009-09-27
, 02:36
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#460
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Originally Posted by volt
There it is.
Well, for the N900 I've only seen people talk about the no EQ. I do not read everything here, of course. I think no Java is odd for an internet device AND for a phone. Maybe people on here are mostly used to no Java cause they went through this discussion already on the last device.
Oh, and absence of evidence is not the same as evidence of absence.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-09-27 at 02:38.
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Eldar is no friend of mine. He's not my hero. I don't have an opinion on if he's a good journalist or not. Apparently somewhat priviledged. And the best two N900 reviews I've seen so far, were indeed written by Eldar.
Also, I did not know that there was a such thing as a standard "journalism defence" so I would be enlightened if you care to tell me what the flip side is.