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johnkzin's Avatar
Posts: 1,878 | Thanked: 646 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ San Jose, CA
#41
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Hi, if I can add to the conversation, I'd personally suggest to also write on the lines of "What would I like to be able to do with the tablet"

Ok. Here goes. This is the "how I would use it" version of the "technical details" list I gave. But, before I start that, I'd like to say that, really, a technical list does give you the information you want. The most basic perspective is: I will use this device in whatever way its technical capabilities enable me.

If I say "I want to have a SIP phone client in it", then that means I want to use it in whatever way a SIP phone client enables me, but that the other options (skype, google talk, gizmo, controlling my cell phone) do not. In that example, the main difference is: SIP integrates with my circuit switched home landline phone service. The others do not. So, while you may feel that giving a technical list doesn't give you the information you want, it does in fact do that. It just gives it to you in a manner that defines the envelope of device capabilities instead of in a manner which defines a marketing bullet list.

Anyway, here's my list:


1) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is access all of its ports without opening a kick stand, especially while it's in a carry case where I can't open a kick stand.

2) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it with just my thumbs, with the device closed, without losing basic functions (like the dpad, escape, menu, and home buttons), and do so in a manner which is not going to cause my thumbs or neck to have unnecessary fatigue, nor induce RSI's.

(#1 and #2 combine to make: tilt screen instead of kickstand, dpad and button cluster on the face, and having the dpad and button cluster not move relative to the keyboard (so, only the screen moves, not the buttons))

3) What I would like to do be able to do with the tablet is recharge it without having to manage, carry, buy, etc. tons of custom cables (one for home, one for work, one for the car, multiplied by however many devices I own that have custom cables). This is the 21st century, we can do better than that. Therefore, I want it to have USB charging, and not have that interfere with its ability to do USB-OTG at the same time. To me, that implies a separate port for USB-OTG and USB charging, thus "one USB client port, and one USB-OTG port".

4) What I would like to do be able to do with the tablet is use a universal card storage format, that can be inserted into any other device (with adapters if necessary). Therefore MicroSD instead of MiniSD nor full-size SD. I can put a microSD card into a memory stick adapter, a miniSD card adapter, a full size SD card adapter, or a USB card reader. I can also put it directly into a phone that supports microSD cards. I can't do that if you go back to full-size SD cards, nor stick with miniSD cards. (full support for transflash would be an interesting bonus, as well)

5) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it as a highly mobile workstation. Most of the time, the tiny screen is more than fine for that, but sometimes I want to hook it up to a monitor or TV so that I can do more "large scale" writing/work. Therefore, a micro-DVI adaptor that supports DVI-A would allow me to use the tablet in this fashion (and allowing it to do larger display resolutions on that external monitor would be good too ... 1024x768 would be enough, I'm sure).

6) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it with modern phones. More and more it seems that the trend is to support Bluetooth PAN and start to deprecate Bluetooth DUN. Therefore, it would be a good idea for the next generation device to support BOTH, to support both your users on existing phones with DUN support, as well as giving them the option to buy phones with PAN support.

7) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it as my primary user interface for my gadgets. That means I want it to be able to fully remote control my phone. I don't want to have to touch my phone except when I'm plugging it in to a charger or physically turn it on or off. Everything else should be done via the tablet and bluetooth. Similarly, I don't want to have to muck with storage, so a high degree of integration with a bluetooth storage device would be appropriate (all apps should be able to directly load data from such devices).

A nice addition to #7, but that I feel would be too costly in space and battery, would be to give it the option to also act as an infra-red remote for devices like TVs, DVD players, stereos, computers with IR keyboard inputs, etc. This would be _ideal_ for the "control my gadgets" aspect, but it's probably not realistic.

8) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it to take pictures of other people. I don't want/need to have it take pictures of me. I'm not a narcissist, so having a camera that points back at me is pretty useless to me (because I also don't care about video conferencing). But, being able to take basic, clear, pictures of things in my environment would be ideal. It doesn't have to compete with a dedicated camera, but it does have to compete with cell phone cameras. A flash would be cool, but I'd hate to see the effect it had on the battery. Video would be cool as well, but also not necessary.

9) What I would like to be able to do with the tablet is use it as a replacement for my home phone handset. Since I can use SIP both at home and at work, it would be ideal if the next generation tablet had a highly polished, usable, and stable, SIP phone client included in the base device (not an add-on). Skype, Gizmo, and google talk do not help me here.
 
johnkzin's Avatar
Posts: 1,878 | Thanked: 646 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ San Jose, CA
#42
Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
I really don't see a need for this. I think the screen is insanely sharp as it is, I really don't need even smaller letters.
I understand the need for more pixels, but not in a device this size.
I don't think the device itself needs to be bigger, but I can see having a virtual screen size that is different from the physical screen size. Then you can more easily port desktop apps to the device. And you wouldn't necessarily need applications to directly understand "zoom in" and "zoom out" -- it could be made part of the virtual -> physical screen infrastructure.

It would also help with a video-out feature, where the larger virtual screen size means you don't end up with a tiny display on a monitor or tv.

Not sure exactly how I would implement it, though.
 
ArnimS's Avatar
Posts: 1,107 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Germany
#43
Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
I wouldn't be surprised if soon the screen *was* the face.

While we're at it, put a small trackball, nub, or analog DPAD as a substitute for the existing DPAD.
Most of us have two thumbs, some of us are left-handed. My left hand wants stylus and right hand wants buttons. But for games, both my thumbs want to find useful buttons/controls on either side of the face. On the left, a dpad - a GOOD dpad. And on the right an analog controller.

Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt View Post
It woud be nice to be able to use this rig as a gaming unit for those that choose it, plus have a completely new (but still intuitive) input method, with exciting possibilities. A trackball would likely be the most space effective and versatile.
Trackball has too many problems - dirt, reliability. This is a superior option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i26UXJOTkTk

(edit) I think that buttons on left and right hand side would be a turn-off for some purchasers - it would look too gamey. However, releasing N9x0 devices in a variety of form-factors could leverage the same basic hardware into a variety of markets. Just as the N800/N810 leverage the OS and hardware for two different usergroups, the N9x0 could have three formats, one as a small tablet, one with a keyboard, and one with both left-hand and right hand side controls to enable gaming use.

Looking at it from the perspective of promoting linux+ITOS as a platform, the more use-cases we have, the greater the user base. ITOS needs to gain more users and more develeopers to realize the benefits of the open-source model.

(edit2) Another use-case would be for a larger tablet style form factor - same hardware just larger screen. For older ppl who can't read 200dpi text - for hospital use, for vertical markets.

Last edited by ArnimS; 2007-10-28 at 02:48.
 
iball's Avatar
Posts: 729 | Thanked: 19 times | Joined on Mar 2007
#44
Originally Posted by redbones View Post
a bigass™ battery would be nice. one that could go around 12 hours with wifi and gps running.
Be fscking realistic. Even the BEST dedicated BT GPS receivers only last 8 hours and that's ONLY doing GPS/BT and nothing else.
Go talk to the dedicated battery manufacturers about that.
__________________
Kicking Nokia in the jimmy, one marketing exec at a time.
Originally Posted by Mr. T
Well maybe Mr. T hacked the game, and made a mowhawk class? And maybe Mr. T is pretty handy with computers? Had that occurred to you Mr. Condescending Director?
 
Posts: 144 | Thanked: 21 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Finland
#45
Originally Posted by iball View Post
Be fscking realistic. Even the BEST dedicated BT GPS receivers only last 8 hours and that's ONLY doing GPS/BT and nothing else.
Go talk to the dedicated battery manufacturers about that.
I have Insmat InsSirf III bluetooth gps receiver. Battery lasts up to 16 hours (1800 mAh) ;-).

Btw it is very good gps receiver and compatible with Nokia chargers. Manual: http://www.insmat.fi/images/kayttooh...h_Ver1.06b.pdf

Last edited by jmk; 2007-10-28 at 05:21.
 
Posts: 91 | Thanked: 2 times | Joined on Jul 2007
#46
What I would like to see is:

- Proper 16:9 display. Helps watching the TV shows
- SIM card slot for 3g / gprs card (no calls / sms / MMS)
- More memory + more cpu power for faster video
- Proper calendar
- Outlook sync
 
johnkzin's Avatar
Posts: 1,878 | Thanked: 646 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ San Jose, CA
#47
GPRS!? Not even EDGE? Why bother? HSUPA/HSDPA ... maybe EDGE if you want to work with T-Mobile. But, really, if you're going with WiMAX for one device, might as well go with HSUPA/HSDPA. If you're going with GPRS, just stick to tethering to a cell phone.
 
pixelseventy2's Avatar
Posts: 357 | Thanked: 115 times | Joined on Sep 2007 @ Sunny England :)
#48
Originally Posted by johnkzin View Post
Since I can use SIP both at home and at work, it would be ideal if the next generation tablet had a highly polished, usable, and stable, SIP phone client included in the base device (not an add-on).

Isn't RTComm going to be included in chinook? Granted the n800 form factor required me to use the headset, but i'm hoping the n810 will fix this.
 
Posts: 27 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Oct 2007
#49
This question tweaked my interest enough to sign up. Guess that means it is a good question. The good response already received highlight that fact. So my list:
  1. More RAM, and a much larger secondary store. 16 GigaBytes to start for flash.
  2. GPS is a very useful technology and I'd like to see that kept.
  3. A 16:9 screen or close to that. Enough pixels to keep the HD content on screen without manipulation. Of course this means we need real video hardware without the current compromises.
  4. A compact flash slot. Sorry folks but compact flash is the standard for professional photography hardware. It is also more cost effective.
  5. Dual processors of at least 600 MHz each. Really this is the power efficient way to scale performance while keeping power usage in check.
  6. Depending on the processor chosen, it may be advantageous to add video play back hardware.
  7. Real USB host ports using standard USB port plugs.
  8. Blue Tooth of course. Ideally the whole world would be Blue tooth but that is a ways off. Thus the need for a standard USB port.
  9. Support a "terminal" communications package like GTKTerm.
  10. Personally I'd like to get rid of as many front mounted buttons as possible. The screen should expand as much as possible to cover the front surface. If there is one thing that Apple has gotten right it is the idea of going large with the screen.
  11. Touch screen data entry like the i series from Apple but with full support for a Blue Tooth keyboard.
  12. FM radio should come back too. Considering you can get WiFi, Bluetooth and FM all in one system this should be a no brianer.
  13. Short wave radio would be nice too. Obviously with all these radios provision for a antenna would be nice.
  14. Ambient temperature and other condition sensing.
  15. Multiple charging options. One option would be being able to handle a wide voltage input on a jack separate from the USB charging input. We are talking something like between 8 and 28 volts DC. The idea is to take raw DC from a solar panel, car, commercial vehicle, military vehicle, industrial power source and charge our man.
  16. Drop the camera or make it an optional module. The optional module should be worth the expense though.

That is stuff off the top of my head. Someone mentioned how we would like to use the machine. What I'm looking for is something that can cruise the net and do stuff associated with that easily. If zooming and other enhancements that Apple has made could be implemented similarly than we could have a useful device in the pocket. That is one thing.

Next what I'm looking for is a device that can handle the storage of a lot of off line material. Mostly in PDF form. Such material would be used on location as part of the job. Mostly documentation of hardware.

A good subset of this info is also available in the form of HTML and or web sites. Being able to run a local server and "server up" those web sites on the device would be nice. Serving is not a huge deal as a good portion of HTML documentation is in the form of static pages or stuff that could go static easily.

The N-device would be used to support and thus connect to industrial devices such as bar code readers, printers, drives and automation devices. Thus the need for a good terminal emulator and a normal USB port. The last thing I need to do is to run around looking for a special USB cable when we have hundreds of standard cables just waiting to be used.

A good scripting language needs to be supported on the device. Here I'd like to see Python adopted widely. The thing is when you need to write quick scripts it helps to have a lot of supporting code on your system ready for use.

As to user software beyond that I'd rather see a flexible system than something based on one path of development. Gnome and KDE are nice, I have gnome (Fedora version) as my desktop but I think it is obvious that a light weight desktop/application environment makes better sense here. In any event why not give users an option at system initialization time. Using GDM works too to setup your environment, but I don't believe that most people would want to waste so much secondary store on multiple desktops/programing interfaces.

Given all of that contacts management is a must. It is also an area where there is still opportunity to get it right. The opportunity is in the presentation of the info to the user.

Nokia should seriously consider throwing their weight into OpenMoko development. Not so much to give up, but rather to piece together a platform that at the moment seems highly fractured. To compete against Windows Mobile you need a good underlying system supported with good apps. This even if there is no phone feature at all in the N900. The idea is to present a development platform that is an alternative to WM and the i series from Apple. I don't believe that a lot of people see the N series that way. Flexible yes but lets face it not setting a lot of fires with unit sales. Long term the N series needs to have a software platform that is in common with other devices.


Dave
 
GeneralAntilles's Avatar
Posts: 5,478 | Thanked: 5,222 times | Joined on Jan 2006 @ St. Petersburg, FL
#50
Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • A 16:9 screen or close to that. Enough pixels to keep the HD content on screen without manipulation. Of course this means we need real video hardware without the current compromises.
I'm not interested in a longer device just for slightly "improved" viewing of some of my media (and worse viewing of 4:3 material).

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • A compact flash slot. Sorry folks but compact flash is the standard for professional photography hardware. It is also more cost effective.
"Compact" flash is unbelievably huge and inappropriate for a device of this type. SD is much smaller, and mostly identical performance wise. If they couldn't fit a fullsize SD slot into the N810, I don't want to imagine the sacrifices they'd have to make to fit a CF slot.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Dual processors of at least 600 MHz each. Really this is the power efficient way to scale performance while keeping power usage in check.
  • Depending on the processor chosen, it may be advantageous to add video play back hardware.
TI OMAP 3430

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Real USB host ports using standard USB port plugs.
Another bad idea, USB ports are huge. See above for size issues.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Personally I'd like to get rid of as many front mounted buttons as possible. The screen should expand as much as possible to cover the front surface. If there is one thing that Apple has gotten right it is the idea of going large with the screen.
Then go buy yourself an iPhone. The loss of a front-face d-pad is pretty bad for any gaming hopes me might have had. Personally, I'd like to see exactly the opposite—ambidextrous buttons on both sides.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Touch screen data entry like the i series from Apple but with full support for a Blue Tooth keyboard.
Not sure what you're talking about here, but, assuming I managed to parse it correctly, we already have this.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • FM radio should come back too. Considering you can get WiFi, Bluetooth and FM all in one system this should be a no brianer.
FM Radio should only come back if we can get access to traffic data from the FM-sideband for use in maemo Mapper.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Short wave radio would be nice too. Obviously with all these radios provision for a antenna would be nice.
You're kidding, right?

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Ambient temperature and other condition sensing.
Waste of space and money with the highly variable conditions in and around a mobile device (Oh, look! The temperature just shot up 10-degrees while I was playing Quake).

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Multiple charging options. One option would be being able to handle a wide voltage input on a jack separate from the USB charging input. We are talking something like between 8 and 28 volts DC. The idea is to take raw DC from a solar panel, car, commercial vehicle, military vehicle, industrial power source and charge our man.
USB charging would be a nicety, but other than that, just buy yourself a cigarette lighter adaptor and be quiet. :\

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • Drop the camera or make it an optional module. The optional module should be worth the expense though.
Optional module means either increased manufacturing costs to produce two separate devices, which drives prices up, or some sort of modular camera package, which means increased size and decreased durability. Bad plan.[/LIST]
Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
  • That is stuff off the top of my head. Someone mentioned how we would like to use the machine. What I'm looking for is something that can cruise the net and do stuff associated with that easily. If zooming and other enhancements that Apple has made could be implemented similarly than we could have a useful device in the pocket. That is one thing.
It surfs the net quite nicely, and the zoom function works well. Not sure what the issue here is.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
Next what I'm looking for is a device that can handle the storage of a lot of off line material. Mostly in PDF form. Such material would be used on location as part of the job. Mostly documentation of hardware.

A good subset of this info is also available in the form of HTML and or web sites. Being able to run a local server and "server up" those web sites on the device would be nice. Serving is not a huge deal as a good portion of HTML documentation is in the form of static pages or stuff that could go static easily.
Both of these features are available now.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
The N-device would be used to support and thus connect to industrial devices such as bar code readers, printers, drives and automation devices. Thus the need for a good terminal emulator and a normal USB port. The last thing I need to do is to run around looking for a special USB cable when we have hundreds of standard cables just waiting to be used.
Buy yourself a Bluetooth/Serial adaptor and get to writing software. Carman already works fine with OBD-II over Bluetooth, so this feature is pretty much available now.

Originally Posted by Wizard69 View Post
A good scripting language needs to be supported on the device. Here I'd like to see Python adopted widely. The thing is when you need to write quick scripts it helps to have a lot of supporting code on your system ready for use.
Python 2.5 is available right now and a new Ruby port was just released.
 
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