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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-01-09 , 17:18
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#41
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
I'd said it elsewhere many times: I'll believe in WiMax when I see it. It seems likely that I won't see it, neither will most people. I'm, sadly, justified in my pessimism.
WiMAX serves different purposes, and is rolled out in hunderds of regions. One cannot claim WiMAX is a failure because supposedly N810WME or supposedly XOHM/Sprint/Clearwire is a failure.
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SD69 is offline SD69
2009-01-09 , 20:07
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#42
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Although typically I'm still smarting from my 770 going the way of the dodo; this move really doesn't hurt their original intent as much as the naysayers would lead you to believe.

To release a marginally usable piece of kit that would function in just a few places really doesn't signal the doom of the NIT market in the least. It was just one flavor of the NIT's with keyboards. If you're in that market and have one already, you love it. If you're like me and WiMAX will come here the day before the end of the world happens, then this is a non-factor.
I agree that the loss of WiMax edition NIT is a blip for the NIT overall, noting of course that the next version NIT will have HSDPA.
 
SD69 is offline SD69
2009-01-09 , 20:18
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#43
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
WiMAX serves different purposes, and is rolled out in hunderds of regions. One cannot claim WiMAX is a failure because supposedly N810WME or supposedly XOHM/Sprint/Clearwire is a failure.
The people who say "believe it when I see it" apparently don't want to see the people in the wild who were getting 3Gbps on a small handheld device with no large obnoxious external antenna. Overall, WiMax is a proven technical success.

But Xohm/Sprint was indeed a business failure. That's not a disparagement of them; I have known several brilliant people whose businesses failed for one reason or another.
 
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johnkzin is offline johnkzin
2009-01-09 , 20:40
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#44
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
I agree that the loss of WiMax edition NIT is a blip for the NIT overall, noting of course that the next version NIT will have HSDPA.
Except of course that if they had delivered an HSPA version at the point where they were ready to deliver the WiMAX one (almost a year ago, wasn't it?), then they'd have been not just the first "MID"/IT out, but the first MID/IT with HSPA.

Right now, MIDs are coming out, and they have HSPA options. Which means everyone who wants a persistently connected MID is going to buy a non-Nokia MID/IT. By the time Nokia delivers their HSPA version, that ship will probably have sailed.

It is my prediction that Nokia has basically given up its leading edge on the MID/IT market, which will in turn mean that they have lost the MID/IT market.
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-01-09 , 21:12
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#45
Just because Nokia delivers late, like they did with touchscreen based smartphones (disregarding that one prototype ), does not mean their new products will fail. For example, Nokia 5800 is selling well while competitors have released touchscreen based smartphones months ago already.
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SD69 is offline SD69
2009-01-09 , 21:47
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#46
Originally Posted by johnkzin View Post
Except of course that if they had delivered an HSPA version at the point where they were ready to deliver the WiMAX one (almost a year ago, wasn't it?), then they'd have been not just the first "MID"/IT out, but the first MID/IT with HSPA.
The Wimax decision was made 2 years ago. It's complicated, but there was no way they were going to do a HSPA version at that point. You can search for my previous posts with "end-around" in them.

Right now, MIDs are coming out, and they have HSPA options. Which means everyone who wants a persistently connected MID is going to buy a non-Nokia MID/IT. By the time Nokia delivers their HSPA version, that ship will probably have sailed.

It is my prediction that Nokia has basically given up its leading edge on the MID/IT market, which will in turn mean that they have lost the MID/IT market.
Intel based MIDs are going to be tough competition IMHO, but they have some hurdles to jump yet too. I think Nokia is now looking to Maemo/Hildon as the product differentiator (that and depending on the expertise at delivering hw to market)
Interesting times, let's not be fatalistic just yet.
 
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Benson is offline Benson
2009-01-09 , 23:23
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#47
Originally Posted by johnkzin View Post
Right now, MIDs are coming out, and they have HSPA options. Which means everyone who wants a persistently connected MID is going to buy a non-Nokia MID/IT. By the time Nokia delivers their HSPA version, that ship will probably have sailed.
Not so fast -- firstly, there's been some coverage of the "Maemo 5 device" on gadget sites, so many of the in-the-know potential early adopters, if they liked the N810, but wanted HSPA, may wait a couple months to see the RX-51 announcement before ordering an Atom MID. (And certainly existing N8x0 fans...) Second, many people are aware of the poor battery life of the Atom, and waiting for either the AMD competitor, the next generation Atom, nVidia's Tegra, or whatever; they'll still be shopping when it's announced. And then there's all the people who, for whatever reason, choose not to buy MIDs immediately, even though they want one -- including those just short on cash.

Nokia can pick up all these customers, who I think outnumber the early adopters you're considering.
It is my prediction that Nokia has basically given up its leading edge on the MID/IT market, which will in turn mean that they have lost the MID/IT market.
They've given up an edge they could have had, but they're not at all far behind, and even if they were, it's in no way insurmountable. Asus was the first with netbooks, but late entries (who were caught flat-footed!) do compete successfully as long as they are better (or cheaper). I see no reason to think the MID/IT market is different that way.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2009-01-10 , 00:06
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#48
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
The people who say "believe it when I see it" apparently don't want to see the people in the wild who were getting 3Gbps on a small handheld device with no large obnoxious external antenna. Overall, WiMax is a proven technical success.

But Xohm/Sprint was indeed a business failure. That's not a disparagement of them; I have known several brilliant people whose businesses failed for one reason or another.
Who are these elusive 'people in the wild?' I'm pretty sure they're nowhere near me, very likely nobody that I really know very well either. I know many people with other devices and services despite living in Springfield, MA. Springfield. blah

A technical success isn't much of a success at all if it never gets rolled out enough to be used by enough customers to maintain a business and support that technical success (beta vs VHS, for example).
 
SD69 is offline SD69
2009-01-10 , 00:41
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#49
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Who are these elusive 'people in the wild?' I'm pretty sure they're nowhere near me, very likely nobody that I really know very well either. I know many people with other devices and services despite living in Springfield, MA. Springfield. blah

A technical success isn't much of a success at all if it never gets rolled out enough to be used by enough customers to maintain a business and support that technical success (beta vs VHS, for example).
"in the wild" refers to practical, real-life, conditions rather than testing condition that have been controlled in some way. These people are close to you (in cyberspace) -they've posted on this forum.
 
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-01-10 , 02:29
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#50
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Who are these elusive 'people in the wild?' I'm pretty sure they're nowhere near me, very likely nobody that I really know very well either. I know many people with other devices and services despite living in Springfield, MA. Springfield. blah

A technical success isn't much of a success at all if it never gets rolled out enough to be used by enough customers to maintain a business and support that technical success (beta vs VHS, for example).
The world is bigger than Springfield, MA, USA. There are city/region names in there I never heard of. Same for corporations. Countries I know jack about. Who am I to say WiMAX has flopped in these regions? One certainly has to look into the data to reach to such conclusion.

I know the frequencies in Germany and the Netherlands are being auctioned as of now, but in the Netherlands there are 5 bids and they also include normal HS*PA. Given there are currently only 3 major telcos (KPN, Vodafone, T-Mobile) with only one WiMAX network in Amsterdam this welcomes room for 2 additional telcos.

But in the USA the rollout of WiMAX by Sprint/Clear/XOHM has been slow. A few cities. Still, if you are usually in one of those cities, or have your business there, then this might indeed be a viable option.

Now quote,

Many companies are closely examining WiMAX for last mile connectivity. The resulting competition may bring lower pricing for both home and business customers or bring broadband access to places where it has been economically unavailable.

WiMAX access was used to assist with communications in Aceh, Indonesia, after the tsunami in December 2004. All communication infrastructure in the area, other than amateur radio, was destroyed, making the survivors unable to communicate with people outside the disaster area and vice versa. WiMAX provided broadband access that helped regenerate communication to and from Aceh.

In addition, WiMAX was used by Intel Corporation to assist the FCC and FEMA in their communications efforts in the areas affected by Hurricane Katrina.[3]
The first part we already knew, and I asserted this is a market demand where one can develop a business around. The second and third I did not know though. Makes me wonder why they chose WiMAX.
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