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ogahyellow is offline ogahyellow
2009-09-27 , 11:39
Posts: 27 | Thanked: 17 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ Philadelphia, USA
#41
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Universal support would be fine; very limited support (within one app) is fine; half-way support is very tricky. Say you have a platform where 20 apps support portrait mode and 20 do not. Clicking on an app in portrait mode icon in the Menu or on the Home screens, you can never be sure if the resulting UI would be 90 degrees around.
I think this is a lot easier with a user-controlled rotation, rather than auto-rotation. If an application does not support a rotated UI, with a button an application can display a "rotation not supported" message. I guess this is also possible in the ASR case, but I would hate for a message to constantly pop up because the device thinks I'm rotating it.

ASR is one of the things I hate about the iPhone and iPod Touch. Sometimes you just shake the device and it rotates and then rotates back. When I hold it parallel to the ground, sometimes it will rotate for no reason in the middle of reading a paragraph, or when using the scientific calculator. Then at other times it just does not rotate, and I would have to play with it to get the screen to rotate. I know this is more of a complaint about the iPhone than something constructive about Maemo, however I think that the community sentiment is to respect the user more than the tree-fruit experience.

The device should respect what I want it to do, not what it wants to do. ASR to me is just a pain. Give me a button for it and I am happy. I know better than the device if I want it portrait or landscape. A button is a definitive decision by the user. A 47-degree angle may or may not be indicative of a user decision for rotation. No ASR for me please.

Originally Posted by christexaport
Read the thread title. PLEASE DON'T post here if you DON'T have an interest in having ASR on the N900 in the future. You're free to make a thread in support of NOT allowing it, but I'm trying to gather supporters, not dissidents.
With all due respect, a "dissident" thread has been created, yet you are the #1 poster in the thread.

Obligatory xkcd
 

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nymajoak is offline nymajoak
2009-09-27 , 11:46
Posts: 199 | Thanked: 144 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ gbg.se
#42
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
The Dashboard is probably about the single hardest UI piece to solve in cases where some applications do not support portrait mode.
...
Are the thumbnails horizontal or vertical? Or a mixture of both?
Just to inform myself, are applications today forced to have landscape support? Just interested what would otherwise happen if an application was designed only for portrait support; we would have the above problem even without rotating dashboard?
 

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anidel is offline anidel
2009-09-27 , 11:50
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#43
I have been playing with portrait mode in Xournal and I can tell that I am thinking not to support it yet.

Some widgets are not really that ready to be rotated and if so, they don't look nice.

Some GTK widget are simply not been designed with so few horizontal space in mind (480 pixels wide is not a common display in the PC world).
This implies that Nokians need to adapt all of those that look ugly + probably make some of their own + think about a whole new UI for all the stock applications + re-test them + involve designers and bla bla bla.. lot's of work, trust me.

I have, for example, to think about a shorter toolbar in Xournal, and I have to think at an alternative way of showing the Tools page (and I haven't yet made the landscape one!!), need to check how the PDF generated from a rotated screen looks like and if it's ugly adapt it.

Need also to check if the keyboard is open what to do.
I will have to detect it and rotate the UI in landscape, the user closes it and I need to check if he also rotated the phone and react accordingly.

Trust me then.. not easy and it's one application.
 

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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-09-27 , 11:53
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#44
Originally Posted by nymajoak View Post
Just to inform myself, are applications today forced to have landscape support? Just interested what would otherwise happen if an application was designed only for portrait support; we would have the above problem even without rotating dashboard?
Slightly theoretical - since landscape is the current norm - but no, in theory. You can select an orientation and then ignore the orientation change signals. Now, since there is a HW keyboard, not supporting landscape isn't highly recommended, but nothing is preventing it... well, except currently the Dashboard expects a thumbnail for each running task, and it is shown in landscape -> might be funny if you cannot do a landscape thumbnail for your running view.
 

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anidel is offline anidel
2009-09-27 , 11:54
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#45
Originally Posted by nymajoak View Post
Just to inform myself, are applications today forced to have landscape support? Just interested what would otherwise happen if an application was designed only for portrait support; we would have the above problem even without rotating dashboard?
The n900 is mainly a landscape device.
New applications should aim at that orientation first and think twice or more before adding rotation.

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nymajoak is offline nymajoak
2009-09-27 , 11:59
Posts: 199 | Thanked: 144 times | Joined on Sep 2009 @ gbg.se
#46
Originally Posted by ragnar View Post
Slightly theoretical - since landscape is the current norm - but no, in theory. You can select an orientation and then ignore the orientation change signals. Now, since there is a HW keyboard, not supporting landscape isn't highly recommended, but nothing is preventing it... well, except currently the Dashboard expects a thumbnail for each running task, and it is shown in landscape -> might be funny if you cannot do a landscape thumbnail for your running view.
Continuing on the theoretical path -- would the dashboard handle it at all (and just look funny) or would it break?

What I am getting at is if there currently is a way to handle the vertical/horizontal conundrum (technically, not aesthetically).
Last edited by nymajoak; 2009-09-27 at 12:13. Reason: spelling
 
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-09-27 , 12:08
Posts: 3,397 | Thanked: 1,212 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands
#47
Originally Posted by ogahyellow View Post
I think this is a lot easier with a user-controlled rotation, rather than auto-rotation. If an application does not support a rotated UI, with a button an application can display a "rotation not supported" message. I guess this is also possible in the ASR case, but I would hate for a message to constantly pop up because the device thinks I'm rotating it.
Good point. One could make the case the user knows about that once he tried to rotate it, and confirmed it with 'OK'. But even having to confirm that for every application, isn't it enough feedback when the application simply does not rotate?

ASR is one of the things I hate about the iPhone and iPod Touch. Sometimes you just shake the device and it rotates and then rotates back. When I hold it parallel to the ground, sometimes it will rotate for no reason in the middle of reading a paragraph, or when using the scientific calculator. Then at other times it just does not rotate, and I would have to play with it to get the screen to rotate. I know this is more of a complaint about the iPhone than something constructive about Maemo, however I think that the community sentiment is to respect the user more than the tree-fruit experience.
Yes, I can imagine several use cases. When in vehicle in mountains. When lying on couch. Even when walking down a hill. Therefore, one could argue ASR should be a configuration option one is able to put off. In iPhoneOS that is possible with jailbreak. Then one can use I think winterboard and have a quick way to toggle it.
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ragnar is offline ragnar
2009-09-27 , 12:12
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#48
Originally Posted by nymajoak View Post
Continuing on the theoretical path -- would the dashboard handle it at all (and just look funny) or would it break?

What I am getting at is if there currently is a way to handle the vertical/horizontal cunundrum (technically, not aesthetically).
A bit hard to say, but perhaps. If I press the switcher key in portrait mode call, the Dashboard appears (in landscape). For a split second it draws the call UI portrait version, cropped so that the top 50% is shown (so that text does not go 90 degrees up), then it is rerendered with the landscape version.

I would guess that if the app is portrait only, it would just stick with that cropped thumbnail. Cannot test this currently, since there is no such app.
 

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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-27 , 16:23
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#49
Originally Posted by allnameswereout View Post
Yes, I can imagine several use cases. When in vehicle in mountains. When lying on couch. Even when walking down a hill. Therefore, one could argue ASR should be a configuration option one is able to put off. In iPhoneOS that is possible with jailbreak. Then one can use I think winterboard and have a quick way to toggle it.
The N95/96/97 solved this by letting you turn off ASR. I like the option of a rotation button on the screen as a third option, too. That's a great idea. You should put it as a solution in the Brainstorm here:
http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._in_fremantle/
If you don't soon, I just may do it for you, because its great to have options, and ON/OFF/Rotation Button is perfect if the rotation button is in a good place. Maybe bring it up like the mouse for copy and paste in the N900 browser...
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allnameswereout is offline allnameswereout
2009-09-27 , 16:29
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#50
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
[...] I like the option of a rotation button on the screen as a third option, too. [...]
Hmm not sure we understand each other. My point and compare was allowing one to toggle ASR mode on or off.
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