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momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-09-05 , 10:18
Posts: 673 | Thanked: 856 times | Joined on Mar 2006
#41
Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
In 2011, here and today, for playing back movies you need a decent GPU with DSP, and the only way to make use of the GPU/DSP is via a proprietary binary blob.
I guess you mean playing movies on a mobile platform that is not x86?
I assumed you were talking about nvidia and ati on desktops.

Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
No, it means something else entirely.

The only hardware manufacturer who is interested in openness is Intel, but as of 2011 there isn't an Intel CPU or SoC that is good enough for tablets.

ARM manufacturers aren't interested in openness, in fact, they stand to profit from closed, proprietary systems.
I hope that business model will change once Intel creates competitive chip-set with open specification.
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-09-05 , 10:41
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#42
Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
Good lord, that is my point.

MeeGo is governed in pretty much exactly the same way that Ubuntu is governed.

Either you can call both open-source, or you can call both closed-source.

Claiming that MeeGo is somehow more 'closed' than Ubuntu is a ridiculous and utterly ******ed double standard.
Wow... way to miss the point about involvement from end-user up. MeeGo has been end-user hostile... and in fact, pretty hostile to everyone except developers--even vendors seems to act as if it's hostile although I'm not entirely sure why the MeeGo platform would want to give this impression.

Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
Yes, you absolutely 100% do need 3D graphics for watching a movie.

Unless you're content with watching only postage-stamp sized 320x200 'movies', that is. But no sane person on this planet really means watching 320x200 clips when they're talking about watching movies.
That's incorrect. While you CAN use 3D acceleration to do a better job of texturing video onto any size and shape on the screen (windowed or fullscreen), you don't have to have 3D... and even when you DO have a 3D video card, you often still don't use the 3D acceleration portions of the video card to do so. It's far more common to use the 2D acceleration functions and hardware MPEG (if your card supports it) to flawlessly decode AND resize video onto any region of the screen (any size and shape, again) in a 2D overlay fashion. This is the way it's been done for many years before 3D was being used to do video presentation and it's still pretty common.

This isn't to say that you CANNOT use 3D to do this... I'm just saying that you don't 100% NEED 3D to do this even with acceleration and resizing.
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-09-05 , 10:46
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#43
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
I hope that business model will change once Intel creates competitive chip-set with open specification.
Seems like the GPU+CPU Sandybridge is the way. I already bought one with my new Asus laptop and I'm already seeing the benefits.. HUGE benefits. It was nice installing Ubuntu and checking for proprietary drivers to notice NONE needed.
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abill_uk is offline abill_uk
2011-09-05 , 10:50
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#44
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
No they will not. It takes years to develop os.
EXACTLY and the main reason why meego never stood a chance for the n900.

What is the point of labelling meego as open source when the devices that include meego parts are shrouded by closed source drivers for components within every single device meego has ever had anything to do with.

Only one way meego could be open source and that is for it to be applied to a NON closed device and upto now that has never ever happened and probably never will.

momcilo actually talks it the way it is unlike the blinkered people on here.
 
don_falcone is offline don_falcone
2011-09-05 , 10:55
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#45
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
That's incorrect. While you CAN use 3D acceleration to do a better job of texturing video onto any size and shape on the screen (windowed or fullscreen), you don't have to have 3D... and even when you DO have a 3D video card, you often still don't use the 3D acceleration portions of the video card to do so. It's far more common to use the 2D acceleration functions and hardware MPEG (if your card supports it) to flawlessly decode AND resize video onto any region of the screen (any size and shape, again) in a 2D overlay fashion. This is the way it's been done for many years before 3D was being used to do video presentation and it's still pretty common.

This isn't to say that you CANNOT use 3D to do this... I'm just saying that you don't 100% NEED 3D to do this even with acceleration and resizing.
That's my point, that's it, although it looks a bit different on mobile platforms as mentioned.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-09-05 , 11:33
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#46
Originally Posted by don_falcone View Post
That's my point, that's it, although it looks a bit different on mobile platforms as mentioned.
As I understood it (I'm not expert here), it's not that much different--instead of MPEG decoding hardware, they sometimes use a DSP to decode independent of the CPU but directly to the video display just the same as the old-school MPEG decoders did... scaled and all.
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Kangal is offline Kangal
2011-09-05 , 12:08
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#47
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Seems like the GPU+CPU Sandybridge is the way. I already bought one with my new Asus laptop and I'm already seeing the benefits.. HUGE benefits. It was nice installing Ubuntu and checking for proprietary drivers to notice NONE needed.
I have a feeling x86 systems are slowly moving to the way of a System On Chip. I think the general mentality was, by having the different components in the same segment, your able to cut out few hardware regulators in many areas, relying purely on low-level software, which increases your net energy efficiency and responsiveness.

Already you can see netbooks and tablets which lack the some legacy traits, such as connectors, ability to increase ram, or exchange storage. And the move by AMD to fuse the CPU and GPU on the same die.

I think in a way, to save power you need smaller parts (nm), slower parts (undervolt), less parts (more components withing a single chip), and more parts (ie cores). I think the ball is really in Intel's court, if they can utilize their expertise and get closer to ARM's layout, they stand to gain the most out of MeeGo.

And that's the truth to the matter, NOKIA never needed Maemo nor MeeGo and had very little to do with the platform. Symbian was their bread and butter, and the entire 5 years that's what they focused on. Android was their biggest competitor, not Apple, and they failed to adapt and lost. Nokia was hoping Intel's strategy for next-generation cores was closer than expected (by mid-2011), which would mean Intel would have needed to complete the MeeGo-Project by 2010. Obviously there was delays back in mid-2010 on Intel's side, and Nokia chose to let Intel find the solution; disregarding its own base (Symbian developers). And this was the fatal blow to Nokia, they lost communication within the board, and failed to acknowledge that a failure of MeeGo would mean a failure to Nokia's roadmap. Which is why the board took the best option they had, they f*cked Microsoft, and now hope to re-enter the market. Year(s) later Chipzilla would overtake the market and cause the big ARMvsX86 deathmatch, at which point Intel would use the expertise they gained from MeeGo, perhaps displaying a truly polished operating system, which would make "analysts" think Nokia made a bad decision by reverting from MeeGo to Windows Phone, when it is actually the right decision.
 

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tkatchev is offline tkatchev
2011-09-05 , 12:20
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#48
Reverting from MeeGo to Windows is a bad decision. Windows Phone is dead, and Nokia is dead with it.

Microsoft doesn't care -- in two years they will abandon the current incarnation of Windows Phone only to move on to their 'next best thing', Windows TabPhone XP 11 or something. Microsoft has been doing this for the last 15 years already, and they can easily continue doing the same for the next 15.

Nokia doesn't have two years to play along with Microsoft experiments. In two years Nokia will be bankrupt or bought out.

Originally Posted by Kangal View Post
...which would make "analysts" think Nokia made a bad decision by reverting from MeeGo to Windows Phone, when it is actually the right decision.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2011-09-05 , 12:30
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#49
I'm with tkatchev. Considering how many years Microsoft has burned their customers and distributors and even the salespeople who were told that THIS time Windows Mobile will be a hot seller... no wait... THIS TIME FOR SURE! Okay okay okay... THIS time! ...Microsoft's mobile strategy is hardly a good decision from top-to-bottom. It's already proven to be a losing strategy and I can't see how Nokia will be any better off for it.
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Hurrian is offline Hurrian
2011-09-05 , 12:56
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#50
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
I'm with tkatchev. Considering how many years Microsoft has burned their customers and distributors and even the salespeople who were told that THIS time Windows Mobile will be a hot seller... no wait... THIS TIME FOR SURE! Okay okay okay... THIS time! ...Microsoft's mobile strategy is hardly a good decision from top-to-bottom. It's already proven to be a losing strategy and I can't see how Nokia will be any better off for it.
Agreed. Android's sales rocketed, while Winmo 1-6.5 never saw sales close to that.
Who's to say it would be different this time? Android 2.3 on my Desire HD is actually pretty zippy compared to iOS 5 beta on my 3GS. WP7 Mango on my HD2 OTOH is a huge POS.
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