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nthn is offline nthn
2015-09-07 , 17:27
Posts: 764 | Thanked: 2,888 times | Joined on Jun 2014
#571
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
It doesn't look good at all and quite frankly I think Jolla will be coming to an end (at least in its current form).

I am not naive enough to think that a startup should be generating a profit. However, if you're not making money, then you at least need to be showing some kind of breakthrough or growth that could potentially be exploited by a partner or sold. Unfortunately, we have not seen either for Jolla and if anything, it appears that interest is fading in the platform. Some will say the tablet kickstarter was a success, but the reality is that shifting 20k units is a drop in the ocean, and quite frankly I'd be surprised if Jolla broke even on the thing (eye watering device costs, VAT and kickstarter % cut will leave Jolla with very little). When you have 130 employees to pay, offices to maintain, tradeshows to attend, etc - selling through Kickstarter won't cut it.

With devices having failed, it's no surprise that Jolla have went to split the company. As an investment opportunity, a mobile hardware company is a road to nowhere and I cannot imagine any investor is going to want to be associated with it. I think Jolla as a hardware company will cease to exist with the existing HW company merely existing to satisfy warranties of existing Jolla devices. With HW jettisoned, I think Jolla will make one last attempt to seek a partner who will licence the OS. Who knows how that will go - but I definitely think they have a better chance at making that work than by trying to do HW as well.

btw - has anyone noticed that you can no longer buy a Jolla in the store?
If you seriously think that Indiegogo campaign was anything other than a (quite successful) publicity stunt, I've got some news for you. Surely you don't believe any of the money generated by it was actually needed to start selling those tablets?
 

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Copernicus is offline Copernicus
2015-09-07 , 18:00
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#572
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
...if anything, it appears that interest is fading in the platform.
Ah, that would be why Intex is now licensing the OS, and is planning on releasing at least one Sailfish phone before the end of the year...

Some will say the tablet kickstarter was a success, but the reality is that shifting 20k units is a drop in the ocean, and quite frankly I'd be surprised if Jolla broke even on the thing
Correct! Jolla has never stated that the phone or the tablet are how they plan to make money; their business is centered around Sailfish. The devices they sell may not make much of a profit, but they make an excellent example of Sailfish as a viable alternative operating system. (As I recall, another company did this same thing a long time ago, releasing their alternative OS on a series of devices they called "Nexus" phones...)

With devices having failed, it's no surprise that Jolla have went to split the company.
Wrong! The devices have succeeded admirably, as (a) cheap advertisement for Jolla (as they do almost pay for themselves), (b) proof that Sailfish is a working alternative to Android/iOS/WP, and (c) a functioning test-bed of devices for Jolla to use to polish and upgrade Sailfish.

At this point, now that they are starting to bring in Sailfish licensees, there's less need to do in-house device creation. It's a perfect time to spin off the hardware department (to allow it to continue to serve the user base they've built up so far), and refocus the main business on licensing Sailfish to new partners.

As an investment opportunity, a mobile hardware company is a road to nowhere and I cannot imagine any investor is going to want to be associated with it.
Ah, yeah, you might want to tell Apple, Samsung, HTC and such about this. For some weird reason, these mobile hardware vendors are making money hand over fist, and have kind of insane stock valuations... In any case, I'd love to see an Android-based OH phone, as I think that would really break open the OH market. It's going to be a while before the world in general switches to Sailfish, but people might snap up Android OHs once they get a look at all the OHs that have been created for the Jolla phone already...

btw - has anyone noticed that you can no longer buy a Jolla in the store?
Yup. The phone has pretty much served its purpose, at least w.r.t. what Jolla needed it for...
 

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vistaus is offline vistaus
2015-09-07 , 18:08
Posts: 423 | Thanked: 478 times | Joined on Sep 2014 @ Netherlands
#573
@NokiaFanatic: They have already found a partner to license it: Intex. And if the plans are true, then Russian gov is also interested so that makes two partners. But at least one as Intex is confirmed.
 

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MartinK is offline MartinK
2015-09-07 , 18:28
Posts: 1,548 | Thanked: 7,510 times | Joined on Apr 2010 @ Czech Republic
#574
Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
Unfortunately, we have not seen either for Jolla and if anything, it appears that interest is fading in the platform.
Yes, there is sometimes an unnerving silence in some formerly lively Sailfish OS related projects - which is unfortunately understandable considering the heaps of bugs and critical missing features application developers and community members have reported but Jolla has not acted upon. It is hard to press on if the only party that can do the thing you need to move further is too overworked on other projects to help you...

I sincerely hope this is mainly the artifact of Sailfish OS 2.0/tablet frenzy and the situation improves once the tablet and 2.0 is out. If not then we should really start to worry about the future of Sailfish OS and Jolla.

Originally Posted by NokiaFanatic View Post
Some will say the tablet kickstarter was a success, but the reality is that shifting 20k units is a drop in the ocean, and quite frankly I'd be surprised if Jolla broke even on the thing (eye watering device costs, VAT and kickstarter % cut will leave Jolla with very little). When you have 130 employees to pay, offices to maintain, tradeshows to attend, etc - selling through Kickstarter won't cut it.
Don't forget the suspected free money from Intel for using their mobile SoC - probably the main reason Jolla considered the tablet project viable enough to undertake.

Sure, you get x86 suppoort, landscape support and tablet form factor support "for free" for further Sailfish OS releases, but I don't think Jolla would go for it without the Intel money.
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strongm is offline strongm
2015-09-07 , 18:44
Posts: 496 | Thanked: 651 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ London
#575
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Ah, yeah, you might want to tell Apple, Samsung, HTC and such about this. For some weird reason, these mobile hardware vendors are making money hand over fist, and have kind of insane stock valuations...
Samsung and HTC, eh? You might want to look at their mobile sales figures.

HTC, for example, suffered a 66% slide in its share price this year and dropped off the Taiwanese stockmarket as a result. In June it said second-quarter revenues had halved from the same period last year, resulting in an operating loss of 5.1bn Taiwanese dollars ($155m; £102m).

Last month, it said it would cut 15% of its global workforce.

HTC's share price is now less than the amount of cash it holds on deposit, which means investors consider the rest of the company to be, in theory, worthless
 

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2015-09-07 , 18:58
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#576
Originally Posted by strongm View Post
Samsung and HTC, eh? You might want to look at their mobile sales figures.
Alright, yeah, I was kinda just grabbing some names that I knew. But still, I don't think it is impossible for mobile hardware vendors to make money...
 
NokiaFanatic is offline NokiaFanatic
2015-09-08 , 16:08
Posts: 337 | Thanked: 891 times | Joined on Jul 2012 @ Royaume Uni.
#577
Do not get me wrong. I think what Jolla have done has been a fantastic achievement. For a small indepedent company to release a phone and a tablet running their own OS is nothing short of amazing. For all that huff and puff though, where has it gotten them? They've sold about 20k phones and 20k tablets. To put that in perspective. Microsoft sell something like 30M devices a year - they are failing. Blackberry sell 5M devices a year - they are failing. MozillaOS sell 2M devices a year - they are failing.

Yes, Jolla are smaller, but even in comparison to smaller rivals like MozillaOS - they are tiny and showing no signs of growth.
 

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NokiaFanatic is offline NokiaFanatic
2015-09-08 , 16:11
Posts: 337 | Thanked: 891 times | Joined on Jul 2012 @ Royaume Uni.
#578
Originally Posted by vistaus View Post
@NokiaFanatic: They have already found a partner to license it: Intex. And if the plans are true, then Russian gov is also interested so that makes two partners. But at least one as Intex is confirmed.
Forgive me for not being blown over by those partners.
 

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vistaus is offline vistaus
2015-09-08 , 18:10
Posts: 423 | Thanked: 478 times | Joined on Sep 2014 @ Netherlands
#579
You don't have to, I just corrected you that there is indeed at least 1 partner.
 
tomislav is offline tomislav
2015-09-08 , 18:47
Posts: 331 | Thanked: 425 times | Joined on Sep 2010
#580
I think Jolla is done with hardwares as gsm devices goes
 

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