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wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-06-08 , 14:06
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#51
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Richard Stallman's ideas usually don't come in pretty design.
Logically, however, there's nothing on the market that supports Stallman's ideas. I'm sure he'd be the first to support one that did, much like how he moved to his longsoon-based laptop, even if it is ten years or more behind the times.

Indeed, the end-result for MeeGo as an OS (included on potentially heavily locked down devices, and absolutely no GPLv3 software) will fly in the face of what he says, which still amuses me that they used a quote or two from him at the LFCS workshop.

As for MeeGo's target audience, it is the hardware vendors and us. Devices are targeted at an audience, and the software is customized to fit. MeeGo is simply a common, and open, base from which vendors can start and immediately receive compatibility with applications developed for the Qt toolkit, minus the Google branding.
Last edited by wmarone; 2010-06-08 at 14:10.
 
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juise- is offline juise-
2010-06-08 , 14:40
Posts: 186 | Thanked: 192 times | Joined on Jan 2010 @ Finland
#52
Originally Posted by jnwi View Post
Nokia needs to clearly show specific uses that the iPhone can't accomplish. The easiest way to do it is to go where Apple won't go, instead of just talking about everything you COULD be missing out on.
They could make MeeGo the mobile platform that integrates seamlessly with Linux desktop. Maybe even bring a store with them (iTunes style, just not as crappy), or they could try to co-operate with Canonical's new store thing.

Surely something Apple won't do.

Anyway, this is just hopeful thinking. Likely the verdict is that there's not enough Linux users out there.
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-06-08 , 15:01
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#53
Originally Posted by jnwi View Post
And if you feel the opposing ideology is wrong, don't you have a moral obligation to inform others of the alternatives? Making your point and convincing people with real, practical results is far from becoming an intolerant preacher or forcibly controlling others' behavior. But that kind of people are often what we are up against, and we shouldn't forget that.
As I've tried to explain before... I'm not against advertising. I'm against loud, flashy, cheap and aggressive advertising.

I happily write on my blog about how cool free software is and why I think it's important - but I don't spam other blogs with it etc.
If people ask me about my opinion (which is what I understood happened here) I'll explain... But I won't go interrupting any computer-related conversation and tell people they'll go to hell if they don't support free software.

I see your point... I see you Apple-users do the opposite and recruit innocent boys and girls for their cause, the way their master recruited them. Yes, that gives them a certain advantage. But they've always had this advantage. Still, they don't rule the world. I had my first sermon by an Apple-fanboy in 1986 or so. The Mac would save the world or so. - More than 20 years later, they're still just another PC company and hardly gained marrket share. I wouldn't have reached the people who buy Apple if I myself had been louder or equally annoying. So I'm confident nothing bad will happen in the long run if we keep things going as they do for the next 25 years. Evil will not win just because the good guys aren't loud enough.
 
Freemantle is offline Freemantle
2010-06-08 , 15:28
Posts: 94 | Thanked: 44 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#54
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Of course I'm not - generally speaking.

In this particular case though: You have to be aware that whatever market Apple enters (except music players, maybe), they always fail to reach a noteworthy market share.

Phones... < 3% AFAIK. Even smartphones: 16% or so.
Computers in general: 5%

That means 97% of the phone users and 95% of all computer users stay away from Apple. Maybe one of the reasons for this is this is that many consumers find the über-American, hysteric hype as repulsive and shady as I do.

(It's symptomatic, though, that people would think Apple's market share is much higher... because of the noise they generate among those who fall for hysterical hype: journalists.)
Just out of interest, what is linux's market share on consumer devices? (phones, pc's, etc not servers, routers or set top boxes)
 
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-06-08 , 16:43
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#55
Originally Posted by Freemantle View Post
Just out of interest, what is linux's market share on consumer devices? (phones, pc's, etc not servers, routers or set top boxes)
I don't know... Do 'they' have a marketing campaign going that would make it worth analysing 'their' market share in this context?
 
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ysss is offline ysss
2010-06-08 , 16:49
Posts: 4,384 | Thanked: 5,524 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ ˙ǝɹǝɥʍou
#56
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
Nokia needs to consider to have their flagship device come preloaded with ABBA. All problems will be gone.
Think about it. For one, there will be no more confusions about which models are Nokia's flagship device anymore.

"Does it come with ABBA?"

All problems will be gone.
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-06-08 , 16:53
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#57
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Logically, however, there's nothing on the market that supports Stallman's ideas. I'm sure he'd be the first to support one that did, much like how he moved to his longsoon-based laptop, even if it is ten years or more behind the times.

Indeed, the end-result for MeeGo as an OS (included on potentially heavily locked down devices, and absolutely no GPLv3 software) will fly in the face of what he says, which still amuses me that they used a quote or two from him at the LFCS workshop.
Maybe I'm getting it wrong, but I seriously believe that there's nothing in the mobile industry that comes as close to Stallman's ideas as MeeGo. Of course it's not the real thing, which would be GPLv3 all over and not one single proprietary bit. But still, it's as close as it gets nowadays... There is no other operating system that's basically all copyleft. (And don't forget that although LGPL - which MeeGo will largely be based upon - is not really a 'good' license, it was created by Stallman&friends, too, as an acceptable compromise.)

It's the trend it sets that amazes me about Maemo/MeeGo. Some years ago, it would have been considered unthinkable that companies like Nokia bet on the "communist" idea of open source, let alone free software. Then they started playing with it... and now it's a polished, beautiful, very capable device they put a lot of effort in. The way from then to now is what counts, not that MeeGo won't be GPLv3. If this trend continues, maybe we will see even fully GPLed devices like the N900 in another 5 years (or a little longer).
 

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Freemantle is offline Freemantle
2010-06-08 , 16:58
Posts: 94 | Thanked: 44 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#58
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
I don't know... Do 'they' have a marketing campaign going that would make it worth analysing 'their' market share in this context?
Don't think so, can't remember ever seeing a marketing campaign for any particular flavour of linux distro, hence the "just out of interest".

On the other hand, is marketing really the issue? Is steve jobs simply the best salesman on the planet? Probably not. Sure Apple plays up their devices, they hype them to a huge extent, but we are just entering the 4th age of the iphone, there has to be something behind all the marketing. It's not like Jobs is selling us all the emperor's new clothes. if that were the case it would have been seen through by now.

There are many factors in Apple's success story other than Marketing.
 
mymo900 is offline mymo900
2010-06-08 , 17:12
Posts: 26 | Thanked: 13 times | Joined on Apr 2010
#59
not being a rude and all. but the benny lad sounds like a tool to me. openess and free software. look at apple . they made a beautiful working product. be happy with a VW. maybe becuz u cant afford a bugatti. just dont go pissing about on folks who can drive and afford a bugatti. iphone 4 has more to it than marketing. you cant fool ppl on hype these days. if that was the case we would have a 3rd republicans term.
 
T-unit is offline T-unit
2010-06-08 , 17:25
Posts: 25 | Thanked: 0 times | Joined on Feb 2008 @ Minnesota
#60
Yes they are going to need some rock solid talking points here is why.

Nokia Pretty much killed itself by removing the n900 from the development plans. I would not be surprised it there meego project imploded because of a lack of developers willing to move to a new field because the number of times they have been burned by nokia's inconsiderate views of its developers here at maemo.org. So yes sure they have to funding but they don't have the support of the community and I don't thing that they see how this is going to blow up in there face.
 
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