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Dave999 is offline Dave999
2017-10-27 , 15:35
Posts: 7,075 | Thanked: 9,073 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
#671
Originally Posted by British View Post
Don't worry, you took it too seriously and didn't get the subtleties. It's OK.
To be fair, that was a bit far-fetched

So: post #666, Dave999, upside down... need I say more ?
The number of the beast. Don’t tell me you are Bruce Dickinson?
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Last edited by Dave999; 2017-10-27 at 15:52.
 

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2017-10-27 , 16:51
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#672
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
@All: I have a question: Regarding Software and binary support for Linux (Let's put performance aside), Is MTK better than Qualcomm? I heard MTK has a better support for Linux than Qualcomm, but I couldn't find evidence supporting it...
just the fact that every sailfish phone so far was on qualcomm should tell you something. Performance aside, but MTK sucks in so many ways even for huuuuge vendors.
 

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Technipal is offline Technipal
2017-10-27 , 17:33
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#673
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
@All: I have a question: Regarding Software and binary support for Linux (Let's put performance aside), Is MTK better than Qualcomm? I heard MTK has a better support for Linux than Qualcomm, but I couldn't find evidence supporting it...
I NEVER heard something good about MTK regarding drivers, software or device support. However, this is usually a problem of Android and I don't know how the situation is with a real Linux.

But yeah, everything I ever heard about MTK was that the driver support sucks.
 
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Feathers McGraw is offline Feathers McGraw
2017-10-27 , 18:24
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#674
Originally Posted by kinggo View Post
just the fact that every sailfish phone so far was on qualcomm should tell you something. Performance aside, but MTK sucks in so many ways even for huuuuge vendors.
Please elaborate? I'd like to understand why
 

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TheKit is offline TheKit
2017-10-27 , 21:44
Posts: 194 | Thanked: 1,167 times | Joined on May 2016
#675
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
@British Thank you. The last step always be the most difficult.

@All: I have a question: Regarding Software and binary support for Linux (Let's put performance aside), Is MTK better than Qualcomm? I heard MTK has a better support for Linux than Qualcomm, but I couldn't find evidence supporting it...
Not sure where did that come from, maybe from MediaTek-based Chromebooks which actually run Linux with almost mainline kernel, but have a bit different hardware from phones.

From SailfishOS perspective, Qualcomm is just more explored, with own quirks and so on. libhybris can work with MediaTek as well (Ubuntu phones and tablet), so I think you can choose chipset based on availability/price.
 

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2017-10-27 , 22:07
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#676
Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw View Post
Please elaborate? I'd like to understand why
just look at the mess called Android TV. And all of them are based on MTK SoC. When I did get my TV it was lollypop on it. With a bunch of bugs and missing prommised/marketed features. A year and a half later MM came and break even more of those "smart" functionalities. I can't write on disks any more, USB disks plugged in TV gets remounted with different ID so they are invisible to the apps, storage formated as internal dissapear. They dont use standard android APIs so passthrough is broken, 4k youtube is a mess...... Few updates later ATV1 platform is still on MM with all the bugs thet were there with first MM based FW. Meanwhile ATV2 platform did recive nougat update but the same things are broken there also. Happy reading https://github.com/CiNcH83/sony_atv/...ssue+is%3Aopen
So if they can't get their shite together on a 1000+€ devices with just two SoCs in use across all manufacturers then what can you expect from phones. The first thing I look in the phone is not to be based on mediacrap SoC.
 

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olf is offline olf
2017-10-27 , 22:29
Posts: 305 | Thanked: 1,246 times | Joined on Aug 2015
#677
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
[...]
@All: I have a question: Regarding Software and binary support for Linux (Let's put performance aside), Is MTK better than Qualcomm? I heard MTK has a better support for Linux than Qualcomm, but I couldn't find evidence supporting it...
Please do not consider anything but Qualcomm SoCs:
  • While Mer & libhybris (being the base of SailfishOS) theoretically support MediaTek SoCs too, all ARM-based devices running SailfishOS well (e.g. the officialy supported ones) use Qualcomm SoCs.
  • Qualcomm has a bit of an Open Source strategy (currently mostly just covering their Adreno GPUs, i.e. handing out technical documentation under NDA to FOSS developers), while MediaTek has nothing.
  • MediaTek uses Mali- (by ARM) or PowerVR-GPUs, which both have no Open Source driver development at all (the Lima initiative stalled years ago, right after its start).
  • Qualcomm is technologically more advanced (utilised semiconductor process nodes etc.), resulting in better performance and runtime (i.e. using less power).
  • When building a niche product, IMO one should try to use components as mainstream as possible; otherwise that becomes even harder.
I can think of a couple other more minor points, but I think I covered the most important ones above.
Last edited by olf; 2017-10-29 at 15:06.
 

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chenliangchen is offline chenliangchen
2017-10-29 , 14:24
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#678
Okay Thanks... I asked the question for the hope of having native GNU/Lunix without Libhybris. But if not possible I will stick with Qualcomm...
 

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jukk is offline jukk
2017-10-29 , 14:56
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#679
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
Okay Thanks... I asked the question for the hope of having native GNU/Lunix without Libhybris. But if not possible I will stick with Qualcomm...
That would only be possible with the i.MX6 or i.MX8 that Purism has chosen for its future phone. And that requires separate modem. Native Linux on ARM outside of the embedded space is hard mostly because of missing GPU support in the kernel (of course there are problems with various sensors as well).
Articles explaining some of these problems:
https://lwn.net/Articles/733837/
https://lwn.net/Articles/733463/
 

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olf is offline olf
2017-10-29 , 14:58
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#680
Originally Posted by chenliangchen View Post
Okay Thanks... I asked the question for the hope of having native GNU/Lunix without Libhybris. But if not possible I will stick with Qualcomm...
Please forget about "having native GNU/Lunix" as a core goal: This is what Purism is trying to achieve with 2 Million Dollars, two years time, awkward hardware etc.

And a MediaTek SoC will not get you closer to this goal, rather the opposite.

You once stated that you are going to alter an existing design based on a Qualcomm SoC, which is absolutely reasonable.
If you have a choice, picking a design with a Snapdragon 650 (as in the Xperia X) or at least one with a Snapdragon 65x will significantly raise the probability of proper SailfishOS support.

As we already discussed here, a plain GNU/Linux without touch-capable applications is pretty much useless on a smartphone (and one cannot use the internal modem for calls and internet access, currently).

Please stay away from the idea of providing any software adaptations beyond boot-loader and maybe kernel, while trying to minimise the latter (kernel adaptations) as much as possible.
Do estimate these software efforts to be larger than the hardware redesign (people usually underestimate this by at least a magnitude, i.e. more than factor 10)!
Last edited by olf; 2017-10-30 at 14:03. Reason: Enhanced wording for clarity
 

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