Since when have they done that? You can still add repositories trivially, and installing 3rd party debs forces you to do so explicitly instead of casually jumping completely out of stream. I don't get why people think that .deb files are like .apk or .cab files. They're meant to be used via the repository model, not traded around.

I'll buy the walled garden when it becomes necessary to actively root the system like you do Android.

I can't help thinking there's a big exploitable bug in there.

Agreed, actually.. but it's one more mechanism that you're denied. You do not need to 'root' an Android system to install apk's. (There's a system option to allow or deny installing non-Market apps.. no rooting necessary. You can even install apps by scanning the barcode on the screen.. bam, done. Again, no rooting. ie: http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/).

I know that when I bought the N900 Ovi Maps wasn't free.. And I didn't care at that time (and which I thought that they will still implement Turn-by-turn Navigation on the N900 or for Maemo 5, but for a price just like symbian).. But when the whole service is now free.. why do we have to look for somewhere else? And yes, I fully understand that it has to be written from scratch as this is a linux and Symbian.. well it's symbian.. but what I am saying is that (going with Nokia's opinion of Maemo 5) it's step 4/5, so why can't they "test/develop" the full Ovi maps on Maemo 5 (don't forget that QT 4.6 will be coming to Maemo 5 also), and then keep on making it better with firmware updates until Maemo 6 (then they will both share the same version).. (Kind of like Symbian S60v3 and S60v5).. This way Ovi Maps would be so much better and mature also when Maemo 6 actually becomes available too!

They would be killing two birds in one stone that way..

True, but Android applications are insulated from the system. They don't install like standard Linux applications, which (all?) Maemo applications are. APT requires you be root (assuming your permissions are sane.)

I'd like it more if sudo worked out of the box and required you set a password on startup. Then you could at least get some of the "do you really know what you are doing" across without forcing people to hit the repos to install out of stream packages. -maybe- a GUI combined with gksudo.

Maemo, a walled garden? And then Android the alternative? Interesting argumentation. Maybe signaling that it's time to review what are we all doing in this discussion.

For instance, all these users willing to have free turn-by-turn navigation in the N900 asap: have you tried Navit, currently in extras-devel? I installed it few days ago and it definitely needs volunteers and feedback. Consider investing there some of your time spent in this speculative thread.

Now back to the topic.

Look, our time to start discussing Harmattan in more detail comes with the Harmattan alpha release. Think of it: makes sense. In the meantime Nokia representatives are encouraged not to make promises or especulate, which also makes total sense.

Maemo 5 has a roadmap of updates that includes more than bugfixes. It hasn't been disclosed, but the plan exists and is being executed as we speak.

No matter what you think today, I bet by the Harmattan alpha release your thoughts will be different based on the new information we will have shared with you. In the meantime, trust me: the value and usefulness of this thread beyond (say) the post 100 is arguable to say the least.

And for you to consider: if setting "Harmattan" target milestone in maemo.org bugs and brainstorms causes all this especulation, bad mood and anxiety then you are making it easier for someone to tell us (Nokians active in maemo.org) to stop sharing any Harmattan related information, for the good of the N900 customers. Threads like this one wouldn't help us defending the increase of openness beyond the scope of open source projects.

So really, if you want to contribute to the future of Maemo and the N900 then please invest your time filing/improving/voting bug reports and brainstorms, help pushing apps from Extras-testing to Extras, try/rate/comment Ovi apps, pick your preferred missing feature and collaborate with anybody willing to push it... All this is actually fun, not only for you but also for the rest of users that will benefit from the improvements you will help pushing.

If you are not really in Maemo collaboration mood then that is also fine of course. Enjoy your Maemo device or enjoy whatever else (including competitors' devices if they suit you better). But nobody really needs more acid posts adding nothing really new to a point that has been clearly made.

Thank you, and enjoy your ride.

It doesn't take much to confuse me.

Dear qgill

This thread must be deeply frustrating for you and I understand how you feel.

I bought the n900 in December and it never leaves my side. The hard work that has gone into the design, implementation of the hardware and software is nothing short of amaziing - the technical teams at Nokia who put this together are talented and have my gratitude.

However, this statement seemed to upset a few people (including me) and the trouble started:

In particular this line "the next generation of Maemo devices".

There has been an enormous amount of speculation on this line "next generation of Maemo devices".
So new OVI Maps will only be available on "next-generation of Maemo devices" is what people here are thinking (I know this is off-topic but it proves an important point).

The next two questions this raises is "A new version of Maemo is in the pipeline - historically speaking a new version of Maemo is only released on a new device)":

(1) Does this mean my n900 is being side-lined? and
(2) Will Maemo 6 be available on my n900?


If the n900 is being side-lined then people who bought the device at it's release (2 months ago) will be annoyed.

qgill, surely you can understand this sentiment?

With regards to the next version of Maemo (Harmattan) how much different will it be?

If the major change to Maemo will be the inclusion of QT and this is the core of Harmattan then that's fine. A version of QT is available for the n900 and developers can target it.

Also some bugs that exist in maemo 5 will only be fixed in Harmatten?
If these fixes are back-ported to maemo 5 via an update of some kind that's fine. If these bugs will only be fixed in Harmattan and Harmattan will run (maybe with some tweaking) on n900 that's fine too. If these bugs are fixed in Harmattan and ignored in maemo 5 (the n900) then that is extremely dis-respectful to people who bought the n900.

I know alot of this is speculation and that is the problem. We just do not know what Nokia are plannning next.

Nokia seems to have very little actual contact with the community and seem to value "silence is better than communication". If this policy is to create speculation and "get people talking" then I am afraid this is back-firing quite badly.

I'm not suggesting Nokia tells us everything or release information that competitors can take advantage of I'm just saying give us some idea on what is going on.

The "let's be cool and mysterious by being secretive" approach only works for Apple not Nokia.

Nokia must communicate.

Give us a roadmap and give us an idea of what is going on. It's only a roadmap not the 10 commandments written in stone handed to Moses!
It just gives us an idea what is going and sometimes things change, roadmaps change and may take a different route - that's fine.

When Nokia maintains publicly silent the company appears elusive and sinister. People may get the wrong impression and think Nokia is up to "something".

We are not asking anyone to speculate or make promises you cannot keep, we are asking you "tell us what you are doing", "how much does Harmattan differ from the current version of maemo".
These are just example questions - "keep us in the loop".

Show us the roadmap, tell us the plan and why won't you disclose it?

You need to disclose something or the speculation and rumours within the community are going to get worse.

If you want a good example of a roadmap look at Gnome, KDE or Phonon - they are on your roadmap page


If you want to stop threads like this appearing on the maemo.org site then you need to be forthcoming with information.

All we really basically know is Maemo 6 will be QT-based, the next device will have multi-touch and "free" OVI Maps will be available on Maemo 6 only and a page proposing a security framework.

The problem is that people in this community are wondering and speculating "If Nokia are concentrating on the "next-generation" of Maemo devices. Is it worth my time contributing to the current version of Maemo"

I absolutely agree.

However, the lack of concrete information by Nokia is driving these kind of comments.

So, come on qgill and Nokia be more forthcoming with your plans for the Maemo platform!

You have a great product - it's even inspired people to learn to program and develop software for the n900 now that is a commitment to the platform!

The speculation and the ill-feeling from members of the community will only grow if things continue the way they are.
If it continues then eventually the IT press will pick-up on it and then it will damage Nokia's chances of being a global player in the smartphone market. Can you imagine if a site like Slashdot.org reported what was going on?

My very first mobile phone was a Nokia phone. Until recently we were staunch Sony-Ericsson users. For the first in many years my wife and I bought Nokia phones (she has the 5800 xpressmusic) and I of course have the n900.

As a UK citizen and a member of Europe I am really proud that a european company like Nokia is competing against large american companies like Apple, Google and Microsoft.

This can only mean good things for the consumer.

I'm not sure why people are struggling with this so much...
qgil has spelt it out pretty clearly in a few posts now that nokia has a plan and that still includes the n900 in some capacity.

it might be full M6 support or it might not but hes practically said
"i cant offically say anything but just wait and see" *wink wink*...

Best post ever. End of thread