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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-26 , 20:54
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#61
Originally Posted by zehjotkah View Post
But what is, if you're lying in your bed sideways, like this an you want to surf the web or just read something... The screen would change the orientation to portrait mode... wtf?!
The N97 has the option to disable screen rotation for this reason. I promote the same solution.
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zehjotkah is offline zehjotkah
2009-09-26 , 21:02
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#62
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
The N97 has the option to disable screen rotation for this reason. I promote the same solution.
but this requires user interaction...

edit:
please don't get me wrong!!! in general I'm on par with your opinion to have choices... choices are good. but i don't want to have a half finished thing..
for example think on the backgrounds of the homescreens. if they are in portrait you can't make such nice effects like a panorama over all 4 screens.
there are so many things to think about.

i think some members here didn't react in a way you would have expected. i thinks, that's because we know how it works with maemo. It's not like symbian, that we get a device which we can't change at all.
if we would like (and I know there is at least one progger, who would like to have ASR) we could implement that feature. also the way how you promote your opinion was very... ummm extroverted ;-) posting in many many old threads and posting a lot is not the maemo-way. we have an edit-function to prevent doble-posts. and that a new thread was started was a way to show you how it should NOT be.
Personally i think that there are pros and cons about ASR. in some situation it is usefull, but in others it would going on my nerves so that i could throw the device on a near wall... ;-)
Last edited by zehjotkah; 2009-09-26 at 21:18.
 
kanishou is offline kanishou
2009-09-26 , 21:17
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#63
Originally Posted by christexaport View Post
What if the widgets had some mechanism to resize and or relocate upon rotation? This is the type of solution we're working to bring to fruition, not just a messy rotate and that's it.
That's a bit like requiring all applications to support portrait mode. A very intrusive and work-intensive solution. Not impossible, but lowering the chances of this happening soon.

I've come to notice that with the solutions many are now supporting in the Brainstorm, for anything to be feasible, there may be a need to limit widgets to 480x480, but that is still a pretty large widget, larger than an N95 screen, so it shouldn't be a problem for most widget designers.
Many community widgets I have seen appear to be larger than this already though. And once you start adding limitations for landscape mode, you are stepping outside the realm of "if you don't need it, it's not going to hurt you".

Could you check my solution (I think its solution #5 in this Brainstorm), and tell me if it sounds inelegant to you if done properly and successfully? I like my idea, and everyone else does so far. Not sure how possible it will be to implement it, but a good solution is at least possible if thought out properly.
I've seen it, and no I don't find it elegant I'm afraid. The message is very intrusive, and repositioning each widget twice can be a nuisance. You are not even guaranteed to have the same amount of space available on both orientations, as the title stripes take up different volumes of space. Moreover, if you keep the four homescreens also in portrait orientation, you need a solution to what to do with the backgrounds (stretching them will look horrible, rotated they won't fit together anymore). This has also been pointed out before.

I don't think the dashboard is so hard an issue. The tiles can show the apps in native orientation if they only support one,
The problem is, the tiles show a thumbnail of the application _without_ the titlebar, so they don't have the same aspect ratio in landscape and portrait mode. In landscape, the thumbnail is created from an 800x424 image, in portrait the thumbnail would be created from a 480x744 image. This is not going to look any good.

or be rotated for apps that support that. The position of the tiles would stay the same, just the data in them would need to change. Then there's the issue of titling the tiles, but just not showing a title in portrait could be a solution. You can always just look and see what it is.
Not sure I understand all of this correctly. But as for "be rotated for apps that support that", the question is also when to do that rotation, considering that it might take some time.

You may see no reason, but it helps us to get votes on the solutions in the brainstorms so we know which ideas are supported and which we should ignore. Community involvement in a positive manner is always needed, and the more the better.

So head on over and be heard!
http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._in_fremantle/
As I work on Fremantle full time right now, I'm not exactly an unbiased community member. These are just my personal opinions though, of what I think would have a reasonable chance to become reality (either officially or as an open source effort). I don't have any say in that whatsoever, nor any particular inside-knowledge. Voting is not going to make any difference though, if a proposal still has fundamental design-flaws.
 

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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-26 , 21:27
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#64
Originally Posted by zehjotkah View Post
but this requires user interaction...

edit:
please don't get me wrong!!! in general I'm on par with your opinion to have choices... choices are good. but i don't want to have a half finished thing..
for example think on the backgrounds of the homescreens. if they are in portrait you can't make such nice effects like a panorama over all 4 screens.
there are so many things to think about.
I assume you'd only turn off ASR when reading in bed on your side, as I do, and usually leave it on or off the rest of the time. As long as the feature is easily accessible, it won't be a nuisance, I don't think.

What makes you think you'd lose scrolling of your 4 desktops in portrait? Only difference is you'd scroll down instead of sideways. That's no big deal at all, and not an issue from my perspective.

Originally Posted by zehjotkah View Post
i think some members here didn't react in a way you would have expected. i thinks, that's because we know how it works with maemo. It's not like symbian, that we get a device which we can't change at all.
I had no expectations except to find users wanting ASR that may want to participate in some lobbying and recruiting of talent to make it happen. Nothing to do with Symbian. I use many mobile OSes for review purposes, and its pretty ubiquitous in them all at some level.

If you see my siggie, I'm a Symbian Freak, and we hack and change the devices to our heart's content. Not easily, but nothing stops a Freak. You'll see... Maemo is a Freak's dream. Wait until we get our grubby hands on this thing. I know an army of Indian, American, Chinese and Russian 15ish year olds that will max the N900 out with the quickness. Freaks belong here in Maemo World, and we're glad the time has finally arrived with the inclusion of the phone feature.

"Legal Freaking? On a NOKIA?? It's on!!"

Originally Posted by zehjotkah View Post
if we would like (and I know there is at least one progger, who would like to have ASR) we could implement that feature.
Personally i think that there are pros and cons about ASR. in some situation it is usefull, but in others it would going on my nerves so that i could throw the device on a near wall... ;-)
Well now I feel forced to convince you to convince them! ;

The great part about ASR is its optional, and not required that you use it. So there are really no cons, imo.
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kanishou is offline kanishou
2009-09-26 , 21:31
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#65
Originally Posted by range View Post
That by the way is an interesting question. Okay, the apps keep running, but do they get *all* which are emitted on dbus or elsewhere? Will they even see that the orientation of the device has changed? Or is the dashboard the only application which listens on dbus for those events at that time and then has to tell all applications that the orientation changed?
That shouldn't be a technical issue. You just have to decide when and how to do it, because it might take considerable time. And portrait thumbnails may not be very useful in landscape mode, for the aspect-ratio issue I mentioned above.
 
range is offline range
2009-09-26 , 21:34
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#66
Originally Posted by kanishou View Post
That shouldn't be a technical issue. You just have to decide when and how to do it, because it might take considerable time. And portrait thumbnails may not be very useful in landscape mode, for the aspect-ratio issue I mentioned above.
If you keep the application in landscape mode after you rotated to portrait mode while on the dashboard, you would have to rotate from landscape to portrait *after* tapping on that application, while already being in portrait mode.

I don't think that that looks very smooth.
 
kanishou is offline kanishou
2009-09-26 , 21:44
Posts: 341 | Thanked: 607 times | Joined on Dec 2008
#67
Originally Posted by range View Post
If you keep the application in landscape mode after you rotated to portrait mode while on the dashboard, you would have to rotate from landscape to portrait *after* tapping on that application, while already being in portrait mode.

I don't think that that looks very smooth.
Yes, that's a good point which makes that question even more pressing. Of course the rotation should happen in the background and without the animation, but it would still introduce a delay after tapping on the task in the "wrong" orientation.
 
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christexaport is offline christexaport
2009-09-26 , 21:47
Posts: 1,589 | Thanked: 720 times | Joined on Aug 2009 @ Arlington (DFW), Texas
#68
some apps wont ever rotate, so the issue will be there regardless until devs start supporting it in their apps. but don't assume how it looks yet. Our goal is that it looks good. Can yall post some of these opinions in the comment section at the bottom of the Brainstorm, PLEASE?
http://maemo.org/community/brainstor..._in_fremantle/
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Thor is offline Thor
2009-09-26 , 23:29
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#69
Originally Posted by ysss View Post
I don't want the desktop to try to be too smart.

I'd rather if it lets the user choose if she wants the primary desktop to either be portrait or landscape, and focus on refining the display of that mode. The secondary mode will be the one with a quickfix 'icons reflow' treatment. It should also give the option to fix the desktop to a single orientation (either portrait or landscape).
Perhaps the default orientation should be Landscape, with a setting to choose autorotation, or portrait as default, or let the program decide (like mobitubia does on the N82, landscape only).
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Thor is offline Thor
2009-09-26 , 23:47
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#70
Originally Posted by nymajoak View Post
I think the multitasking screen might be tricky as well, as has been pointed out elsewhere (can't find the post right now). I don't remember the details right now but the windows are not just static screenshots of the apps, but dynamic. So when rotating the MT screen you have to switch all open apps to their other orientation. This might take a lot of resources (have no feeling for how demanding it would be, but a slow and laggy switch between orientations would be definite turn-off with an otherwise snappy device).
I was thinking more along the lines of having seen the 2 rows by 3 columns = 6 windows on the desktop running dynamically, we can just have those windows rotated into portrait (90 degrees) in the same locations, so we end up with a 3 rows and 2 columns. There may be less spacing between the columns, or the windows will have to be a little smaller, but it should be do-able.

Originally Posted by nymajoak View Post
Also, all applications won't support both orientations (I think it would be a mistake to force them to, see below) which complicates it further. It might look a mess with windows in different orientations?


Personally I think it would be a mistake to force all applications to have support for both orientations. Besides increasing the load on app developers, I am pretty sure not all applications work "well" (as in being practical, intuitive, logical, usable etc) in both orientations.

But yes, there is in-built support for applications to have both orientations if I have understood it right. It's up to the developer.
I didn't phrase it correctly, the developer should have the option to lock-in the orientation, be it because they can't be bothered to make portrait, or feel the work is way too much, or that the application makes no sense in portrait, say for example, watching a widescreen movie. You'd really want to watch it in landscape.

Also, I think that an application would probably need a UI design for landscape and one for portrait, and the accelerometer triggers which one is displayed. Yes, it's more work, but I can't think of any other way, so it's up to a developer to decide what to do.

Originally Posted by nymajoak View Post
Having square widgets/shortcuts etc (or rather forcing them to a grid with square slots) would solve the entire homescreen problem as far as I understand. Question is if it is worth the sacrifice. Without having used either blackberries, iphones, n97s or n900s I think I prefer the n900's homescreen system and wouldn't want to sacrifice the functionality. Also, it would mean redesigning the entire homescreen functionality and all widgets...
Well portrait mode would have less functionality. Anyone who wants full functionality of widgets can go to landscape mode. It works well on the Blackberry (and mine is fixed as it's not touchscreen, and it makes no sense rotating the phone). I don't really have much experience of the iPhone, but I think I've heard the home screen is only available in portrait mode? I think the menus within Symbian can rotate to landscape or portrait on my N82 (I have autorotation off the screen is off-centre in landscape, though mobitubia is fine in it), but the homescreen is the only one permanently in portrait (excluding developr apps).
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