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	ysss	2011-01-22 , 17:41
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Originally Posted by rmerren

As mobile processors get better (and we might already be at the point where they are good enough), devices are going to be more like computers and less like iPhones. Multitasking and OS functionalities will become more important and the iPhone/Android paradigm of a single, one-function, full-screen app running in the foreground (with everything else on pause or disposable) will be less important.

The main limiting factor is the size, not the power.
Expect to see continued development of iPhone & android (& WP7) like UI, until head mounted displays are the norms.

An OS which can spawn independent OS processes and natively handle multicore processing will win out over an OS which puts everything in the same VM and heavily abstracts the OS from the programmer.

I would say that this is a 'feature-less' capability. Something with no (not much) real benefit to the end user for this type of device.

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	WereCatf	2011-01-22 , 17:43
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Originally Posted by Copernicus

Very true. I'm just trying to point out, when moving between hardware platforms, there are far more important issues to consider than whether you need to recompile your code or not.

Indeed. As has been said, having the GUI scale to different resolutions is the hardest part, but luckily Qt does offer some rather nice tools to help out with even that. And probably Nokia's MeeGo development kit will include some tools to help even more when they get around to releasing such.

But adjusting to different screen sizes and DPI settings is not memory- or CPU-bound task, it's all logics the programmer must be aware of themselves: create fluid, dynamic GUI and group together elements that belong together, the OS can then help out with displaying them.

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attila77	2011-01-22 , 17:45
Posts: 3,319 \| Thanked: 5,610 times \| Joined on Aug 2008 @ Finland	#63

Originally Posted by v13

Fair enough. But what about the apps? And I'm really dying to listen some official comments from Nokia's on this...

VM is an advantage in only corner cases - like if the developer has abandoned his project and never bothered to resubmit with a newer SDK (note that you don't even need another target - the Qt SDK already shields you from architectural differences - you're ifdeffing Symbian/MeeGo and NOT X86/ARM/MIPS !). In that case, the question is if you really want an application in your store for which you know there will not be any updates, security, performance or other ? So even there the VM advantage is a foggy forward-compatibility promise at best...

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v13	2011-01-22 , 18:02
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Originally Posted by attila77

VM is an advantage in only corner cases - like if the developer has abandoned his project and never bothered to resubmit with a newer SDK (note that you don't even need another target - the Qt SDK already shields you from architectural differences - you're ifdeffing Symbian/MeeGo and NOT X86/ARM/MIPS !). In that case, the question is if you really want an application in your store for which you know there will not be any updates, security, performance or other ? So even there the VM advantage is a foggy forward-compatibility promise at best...

Just to relax this conversation a bit: I'm betting this thread will end up being an advertisement for LLVM. Write once, compile once, run everywhere. It's just like this: Using the programming language of your choice, describe in a common language what you want to do. Then let the vendor write the JIT compiler where he converts this common language to actual machine code. Something like Python+JavaVM on steroids.

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	mikec	2011-01-22 , 18:12
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And of course if you really are concerned about portability across architectures the QtWeb Runtime is available.

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rmerren	2011-01-22 , 18:15
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Originally Posted by ysss

The main limiting factor is the size, not the power.
Expect to see continued development of iPhone & android (& WP7) like UI, until head mounted displays are the norms.

Quite the contrary. Live homescreen widgets are already available on Maemo and Symbian, and will doubtless be available on meego platforms. On the N900 I have one glance at live widgets for music player, email, facebook, and conversations. These are not just blinking indicators, but full apps that I can interact with and control. Can you imagine NOT having those on a tablet sized device...iPad and Galaxy Tab have huge screens and still don't support this basic multitasking.

Expect to see iOS and Android work in live homescreen widgets somehow, especially with windows mobile having those live little squares. That's the multitasking you don't see on those other platforms. Like cut and paste and "multitasking" on those platforms, it will be a hack with limited capabilities. (And in iPhone's case, it will be declared a revolutionary invention by Apple.)

If Nokia stays on this course. they will have success. Maybe with the N9 or its successors competing with iPhone or Android, but definitely with the C and E series competing with Blackberry for a spot in every mid-level businessman's hip holster.

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attila77	2011-01-22 , 18:16
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Originally Posted by mikec

And of course if you really are concerned about portability across architectures the QtWeb Runtime is available.

The officially supported application technologies (for future Nokia smartphones) are QtQuick and HTML5. Just sayin'.

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	ysss	2011-01-22 , 18:24
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Originally Posted by rmerren

Quite the contrary. Live homescreen widgets are already available on Maemo and Symbian, and will doubtless be available on meego platforms. On the N900 I have one glance at live widgets for music player, email, facebook, and conversations. These are not just blinking indicators, but full apps that I can interact with and control. Can you imagine NOT having those on a tablet sized device...iPad and Galaxy Tab have huge screens and still don't support this basic multitasking.

I thought live homescreen widgets have always already been on Android since 1.0. I'm baffled why Apple hasn't added this yet, especially on iPad's launch. Though, if you delve into it, they've put many subtle and very useful interaction elements on iPad over iPhone/Touch.

But I don't see this as "more like computers and less like iPhones". I think single-screen-ed app will still be norm for <4" screens due to the physical screen estate. Widgets and a more visual task switcher will evolve, not windowed/multi-window work areas.

Tablet is a different game. I think a touch friendly windowed interface may live there. Maybe one with heavy 'layout assistance' (snapon areas, etc), not a freeflow windowing areas like mouse-driven desktop counterparts.

Last edited by ysss; 2011-01-22 at 19:16.

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slender	2011-01-22 , 18:38
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Originally Posted by ysss

I thought live homescreen widgets have always already been on Android since 1.0. I'm baffled why Apple hasn't added this yet, especially on iPad's launch.

For same reason why there has been numerous of people here telling weird problems that mostly end up beign misbehaving widgets. And what I have understood from maemo bugzilla bug comments on issues with hildon-home the Nokians are not too happy with people who code bad widgets. Widgets tend to drain battery and if they have memory leaks they might end up making phone very unstable. Additionally IIRC they said that running python based apps constanlty on background is really bad idea.

So reason why iPhone did not have multitasking or why it does not have widgets is because Apple knows that it if you give devels free hands to do stuff with things that might make fluidity stutter there will be minority of devels that fck things up. I of course believe in peoples own choice to do stuff but I do understand why Apple does what it does.

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tswindell	2011-01-22 , 19:06
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Originally Posted by slender

For same reason why there has been numerous of people here telling weird problems that mostly end up beign misbehaving widgets. And what I have understood from maemo bugzilla bug comments on issues with hildon-home the Nokians are not too happy with people who code bad widgets. Widgets tend to drain battery and if they have memory leaks they might end up making phone very unstable. Additionally IIRC they said that running python based apps constanlty on background is really bad idea.

Well, those devs that do know what they are doing, like hopefully myself, have wrote services and background services in Python that have not caused unusual battery drain. So I doubt the problem is there. Anyway, in the case of battery drain that should be somewhat common sense, IO, networking, drain battery.