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timoph	2012-02-02 , 15:35
Posts: 415 \| Thanked: 732 times \| Joined on Jan 2009 @ Finland	#721

Originally Posted by misterc

my understanding was that as far as support was concerned, the N900 was more or less DOA...
well, on intensive care, maybe

I disagree. They funded this community for years (still do), you could get direct contact with the actual developers, they donated n900s to the community members before it's release, it was marketted (not as much as the symbian things but anyway), etc. even when it clearly wasn't a mainstream product. I know somethings could've been done in a better way but at least I'm happy with the support it got while it was supported. oh. And how many other phones you can flash yourself when you mess it up (or are even able to mess up)? They did provide tools and images to do so (still do).

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	misterc	2012-02-02 , 15:41
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#722

Originally Posted by timoph

I disagree. They funded this community for years (still do), you could get direct contact with the actual developers, they donated n900s to the community members before it's release, it was marketted (not as much as the symbian things but anyway), etc. even when it clearly wasn't a mainstream product. I know somethings could've been done in a better way but at least I'm happy with the support it got while it was supported. oh. And how many other phones you can flash yourself when you mess it up (or are even able to mess up)? They did provide tools and images to do so (still do).

copy THAT, 5 by 5!
(was sort'a pulling your leg

)

to give a little background, i looked at (nearly) every one of 770, N8x0 & N900 before falling for the N900 (three, meanwhile, one having been exchanged against a N8)
of course, i wasn't aware of Marmo.org prior to getting the N900 but learned to appreciate it since

pali	2012-02-03 , 17:05
Posts: 2,154 \| Thanked: 8,464 times \| Joined on May 2010	#723

Originally Posted by pali

@SD69:

We (Maemo Community) needs more people with access to Extras-* repositories.

For example package rootsh (http://maemo.org/packages/view/rootsh/) version 1.5 which is in Extras has bug in uninstall script. This problem is fixed (and working without problem) in version 1.8 which is only in Extras-devel.

Only maintainer can promote package from Extras-devel to Extras. But maintainer of rootsh is off and nobody can fix this problem.

So in Extras is buggy SW, but fixed in Extras-Devel. I'm sure that there are more buggy packages (which are fixed in devel), but nobody has permission to promote it.

This problem with rootsh SHOULD be fixed ASAP - not in next year (as kernel-power). SD69, what can you do as memeber of Community Council? I'm suggesting (again) that Nokia (or X-Fade?) should add repository permission to Community and NOT only to maintainers of package.

Now I got maintainer permission (from somebody?) and I promoted fixed version 1.8 to Extras-Testing: http://maemo.org/packages/package_in...el/rootsh/1.8/

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	misterc	2012-02-03 , 22:43
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#724

Originally Posted by timoph

[...]n900[...] was marketted (not as much as the symbian things but anyway), etc. even when it clearly wasn't a mainstream product. [...]

the N900 was and the N9 still is a foray into "disruptive technologies"... NOT a mainstream product.

vi_	2012-02-03 , 23:20
Posts: 1,680 \| Thanked: 3,685 times \| Joined on Jan 2011	#725

Lets just cut to the chase. Pali, freemangordon, nicolai and the merlin19xx,MAG have proven their metal. Just make them super maintainers that they can promote/demote packages willy nilly. It would sure help us update/move/fix a lot of stuck/orphaned/broken stuff.

SD69, whaddya say?

__________________

N900: One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die.

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	misterc	2012-02-03 , 23:56
	Posts: 1,625 \| Thanked: 998 times \| Joined on Aug 2010	#726

vi_,

i know this is not the answer you are hoping for, but hereafter an excerpt of the last Council's meeting...

[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:30:25] <SD69> For point B. let me preface by saying there is the impression that the community suffers because there is currently not enough bodies maintaining maemo.org
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:30:53] <X-Fade> What do you think needs more maintaining?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:31:17] <SD69> package promotion
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:31:42] <X-Fade> Why don't you just add more supertesters to the group in garage then?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:31:42] <SD69> and this is because package maintainers go awol, etc.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:32:24] <SD69> how do we do that - I mean give you names or what?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:32:43] <X-Fade> Just add them to the group yourself?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:33:00] <X-Fade> I thought you were admin in that project?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:33:08] <X-Fade> Or did achipa manage this?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:33:19] <SD69> it was not me
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:33:30] <X-Fade> https://garage.maemo.org/projects/qatesters/
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:33:42] <SD69> I admit the handoff of community tasks has not always been smooth
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:34:13] <X-Fade> Changing the people there will give them rights. 3 votes from supertesters cause promotion.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:35:01] <SD69> and do you a suggestion for applying new maintainer when the previous one goes awol?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:35:49] <X-Fade> I'd say write to -developers, ask for comments and if there is no response or no objections, I can change it?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:36:07] <X-Fade> At least we need to do this in public.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:36:44] <SD69> of course in public
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:37:27] <SD69> but you seem to have busy schedule...
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:37:39] <X-Fade> I mean to give the original maintainer some place to respond.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:37:55] <X-Fade> I just need a clear list every X amount of time.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:38:08] <X-Fade> I can't go through random posts on forums etc.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:38:21] <X-Fade> So if you assign someone to keep a list etc, I'm fine with that.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:38:48] Quit mairas has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:38:59] Join mairas has joined this channel (mairas@nat/nokia/x-cqyjbrtchucngszk).
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:39:03] <misterc__> X-Fade, what is X amount of time & how much time would you then have?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:39:20] <X-Fade> I'd say process changes once a month or so?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:39:27] <SD69> I have busy schedule too...
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:39:36] <mairas> sorry, proxy disconnects randomly :-(
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:39:51] <X-Fade> Let's try to see if you can organize that and eval afterwards?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:40:24] <SD69> I'd rather give someone else some admin rights than go through a list - it could become a bottleneck in practice
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:41:15] <X-Fade> Doing adhoc changes to the repo is also not what you want.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:41:27] <misterc__> once a month seems okay. how much time can you muster for that? as much as needed?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:41:42] <X-Fade> You need people to step up and say: "Hey, that doesn't look right"
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:42:19] <X-Fade> Depending on the amount of packages, it is not that much work.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:42:31] <X-Fade> People just need to apply to be maintainer themselves.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:42:49] <X-Fade> And we then need a list of packages where we need to approve the change.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:43:26] Quit mairas has left this server (Remote host closed the connection).
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:43:37] <misterc__> and after that, those ppl can do all needed tasks themselves (promoting packages aso.)?
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:43:44] Join mairas has joined this channel (mairas@nat/nokia/x-qljjirhhagtvpgwk).
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:43:45] <X-Fade> Yes.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:44:08] <X-Fade> Just like you add an extra maintainer to your own package.
[Thursday 12 January 2012] [14:44:50] <SD69> I think we can try it

gerbick	2012-02-04 , 20:28
Guest \| Posts: n/a \| Thanked: 0 times \| Joined on	#727

Does the council know when the final date will be when Nokia pulls the plug on TMO?

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SD69	2012-02-04 , 23:39
Posts: 1,513 \| Thanked: 2,248 times \| Joined on Mar 2006 @ US	#728

Originally Posted by vi_

Lets just cut to the chase. Pali, freemangordon, nicolai and the merlin19xx,MAG have proven their metal. Just make them super maintainers that they can promote/demote packages willy nilly. It would sure help us update/move/fix a lot of stuck/orphaned/broken stuff.

SD69, whaddya say?

Supertesters is the next thing on my maemo list. Read the ML thread on this topic. But we should do an open call so others know about it too.

I am in New Orleans now (mardi gras starting

) so it might be a while. Feel free to start a new announcement thread for supertester nominations and/or crowdsourcing of criteria if no other council members (past or present) pop up before I do. My preference is for some objective measure of trustworthiness such as amount or length of time of maemo-related development.

__________________
3-time Maemo Community Council Member
Co-Founder, Hildon Foundation

Last edited by SD69; 2012-02-05 at 00:11.

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ivgalvez	2012-02-08 , 12:00
Posts: 1,397 \| Thanked: 2,126 times \| Joined on Nov 2009 @ Dublin, Ireland	#729

Apart from supertesters (really needed) I would suggest that autopromotion frm testing should be done once an application has reached the needed votes and passed the quarantine.

What's the point in promoting something to testing to then, once it has been tested, do not promote it to extras?

No there are lots of applications with dozens of votes in testing that could benefit from this change.

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timoph	2012-02-08 , 12:30
Posts: 415 \| Thanked: 732 times \| Joined on Jan 2009 @ Finland	#730

Originally Posted by ivgalvez

Apart from supertesters (really needed) I would suggest that autopromotion frm testing should be done once an application has reached the needed votes and passed the quarantine.

What's the point in promoting something to testing to then, once it has been tested, do not promote it to extras?

No there are lots of applications with dozens of votes in testing that could benefit from this change.

At least I don't trust most of the votes. The more popular packages seem to get ok votes right after putting it to testing so that tells me that either people don't really test it or don't test it enough.

Remember that the extras promotions affect people with no interest in -testing or -devel. Believe it or not but there are n900 users who don't even know about those repos (I live with one). While I understand that one can't be too anal with community QA but there has to be some sort of quarantee that the package is properly tested. Automated promotions will only lower the quality of extras and will not solve the problem of too few testers.