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2008-01-29
, 17:04
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Posts: 52 |
Thanked: 21 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#72
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Originally Posted by sungrove
I want to see a calendar that looks pretty much identical to palm's, to be honest. I want to be able to add a meeting with a timezone, and have it automatically adjust as I travel, and sync with exchange transparently. (i.e. I live in central time zone, I put a meeting in the eastern time zone in and mark it as such, and when I change time zones, the device recognizes this and adjusts the calendar accordingly, so I'm always working in whatever time zone I am in). I want categories for meetings, contacts and e-mail to carry across between devices. I want "extra" contact information (i.e. birthdays, pictures, multiple addresses, multiple phone numbers etc.) to transfer between exchange and my device seamlessly. I want to be able to search my enterprise directory for contact information. And then I want it to sync all of those things transparently and constantly with my exchange server. I don't want to have to plug it into a cable and press a button. I want it to just work, after plugging in my username, password and exchange server address. Just like my treo does.
So, here are a few ideas.
A. There are industrial strength PIMs that a business exec would use for his or her complex schedule and then there are simpler PIMs that everyone else can use. ( I don't know, you make up the catagories)
B. So there are these partially functional PIMs we all now know about on the n800 and my guess is that Nokia is sort of hoping that one of them will work out enough to quiet enough of it's critics.
C. So, short of satisfying the business exec which we don't think is going to happen on this devise anyway, what level of functionality do the current PIM options need to arrive at to satisfy the rest of us?
It just seems to me that a 'real' highly functional PIM system is probably not something that Nokia wants to get involved in because of the complexity involved. So, you say it ain't that hard. Well, if it ain't that hard why is GPE taking so long? I mentioned Garnet VM earlier in this thread because it's working quite good for me. And again I guess it depends on what level of PIM you need. Garnet gets shot down because for some of us it's not working right. But if you read through the threads in the Palm section here you can see that quite a few people have it working. And I would remind you guys that the Garnet VM is a BETA. Why are we so impatient with it? It appears to me to do good basic PIMing by syncing between N800 and Desktop .
So maybe the thing to do is come to some sort of idea what we want in a PIM. It appears to me that between the lines there are much different ideas of what it should be/do.
I don't mean to be some sort of shil for Garnet VM. If something on the N800 was working better for me I'd be all over it. But I really don't think Garnet would have to go much further to have a basic stable, usable by the masses rather than the execs, PIM. As it is now, it's quite useable but ya, it's apparently not what it is on a treo.
So, what does a PIM need to be to satisfy your needs?
Neil
To be honest, I'd be thrilled if the n800 could transparently run all palm applications. Tilt it sideways, and give me the 755p functionality, and interface, including being able to dial my cell phone from the n800, and I might consider giving up my treo. The more and more I think about it, though, the more I really just appreciate the n800 for what it is. It's a reasonable media player/ebook reader, and a great little toy for browsing the "rich" web. Those are two areas that treos stink at, and two areas that I love the tablet for.
Unless Nokia is trying to move the n800 into the enterprise marketplace, something like GPE will be just fine, and will suit the needs of most of it's users. I think if Nokia focuses on improving the web experience, and media aspects of the tablet, it could be an incredible device. Moving into the enterprise PIM market would just divert focus from improving those two things, IMO.
I think the tablet's priorities should be:
A. Improve web browsing speed. It's certainly currently usable, but by no means fast. I want desktop-like speed. Sites like Google reader and Google mail are just slow. Scaling the screen is slow. Opening new browser windows is slow.
B. Improve the media player. Canola2 is pretty skin on not much meat. The default player is a lot more meat with an ugly UI. Mediabox is actually the best interface for the tablet, IMO, just not quite there yet from a capability standpoint. Focus on supporting one effort that combines all of these things into one GOOD player.
C. Add support for video chat with MSN, AIM, Yahoo etc. to make that stupid camera actually worthwhile.
You fix those three things, and the tablet is a killer toy, even bordering on a useful tool.
Trying to breach the enterprise PIM market is just spinning your wheels and trying to make the n800 something it currently isn't. Make it excellent at what it is (which I'd argue it currently isn't), and THEN focus on changing what it does. Until then, let the GPE crowd keep working on GPE, and make it accessible to the masses.
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2008-01-29
, 17:44
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Posts: 348 |
Thanked: 61 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#73
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Another possible factor here is that Nokia still wants to sell phones, and most phones have PIM stuff on them. If you have a Nokia phone, you don't need other PIMs, so why bother to put them on the N8*0? Poor logic, and I don't maintain PIM infor on my phone, but it may be some of the thinking. The only thing I have on my phone is phone numbers - I don't use the calendar or anything else, because it's too much trouble on a tiny device, and I can't sync it to my PC, so it's useless for me. Give me robust PIM support and a good password manager that can import my current passwords, and I can give up my Palm. My phone won't cut the mustard, and I don't want a smartphone, or a data plan.
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2008-01-30
, 14:02
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Posts: 52 |
Thanked: 21 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#74
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Originally Posted by sgosnell
So you'd rather haul around two devices (a phone and an internet tablet) than just one?
Another possible factor here is that Nokia still wants to sell phones, and most phones have PIM stuff on them. If you have a Nokia phone, you don't need other PIMs, so why bother to put them on the N8*0? Poor logic, and I don't maintain PIM infor on my phone, but it may be some of the thinking. The only thing I have on my phone is phone numbers - I don't use the calendar or anything else, because it's too much trouble on a tiny device, and I can't sync it to my PC, so it's useless for me. Give me robust PIM support and a good password manager that can import my current passwords, and I can give up my Palm. My phone won't cut the mustard, and I don't want a smartphone, or a data plan.
Personally, if my treo could browse the real web properly, had one more SDHC slot, ran an OS that allowed real multitasking, and had a bigger screen, the nokia would be pretty much pointless, as the treo does everything the n800 does and then some.
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2008-01-30
, 15:19
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Posts: 52 |
Thanked: 8 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#75
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Originally Posted by gompers
I would. I have gone through three or four phones in the time I have had my Palm T5. Phones get dropped. Phones get wet. Phones get used a lot, and they wear out. There are places I take my phone where I do not and would not want to take my Palm, or the n810, because the risk of it being damaged is too great.
So you'd rather haul around two devices (a phone and an internet tablet) than just one?
It's like having a TV with a built in DVD player. I have a $4000 television, and a $200 DVD player. I would not want the DVD player built into the TV for the same reason -- DVD players wear out faster than televisions.
Some things should not be combined.
That being said, if the n810 had 80 GB of storage instead of 4 GB of storage, I would not mind getting rid of my MP3 player. At 4 GB of storage, being able to play music on it is pretty much a useless gimmick, the same as being able to play music on my Palm.
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2008-01-30
, 15:25
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Posts: 3,841 |
Thanked: 1,079 times |
Joined on Nov 2006
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#76
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I would carry two devices, but one point is that I don't want to _haul_ around two devices: I want the phone to be small. Cheap. No smartphone for me please, they're uncomfortable compromises.
__________________
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
N800/OS2007|N900/Maemo5
-- Metalayer-crawler delenda est.
-- Current state: Fed up with everything MeeGo.
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2008-01-31
, 05:29
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Posts: 40 |
Thanked: 4 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#77
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Originally Posted by TA-t3
I'm the same way. I was really hoping Garnet would work for me so I don't have to carry my Nokia, cell, Palm and laptop around with me.
I would carry two devices, but one point is that I don't want to _haul_ around two devices: I want the phone to be small. Cheap. No smartphone for me please, they're uncomfortable compromises.
If Garnet would work correctly without crashing my N800 I could carry 1 less device around.
My cell phone is eligible for an upgrade in a few months and i'm considering getting a Treo since damn Garnet won't work properly. At least then I can leave my Palm at home.
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2008-01-31
, 22:56
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Posts: 52 |
Thanked: 21 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#78
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Originally Posted by bblackmoor
I've been through maybe 5 treos (3 650s and 2 755ps) in the last few years. That being said, I've found treos to be fairly rugged. The things that broke mine were hardware problems that were all replaced under warranty. I've paid for only one, and that cost me less than the n800. I take it pretty much everywhere I go. What's the point of having a mobile device you're afraid to take with you when you're mobile?
I would. I have gone through three or four phones in the time I have had my Palm T5. Phones get dropped. Phones get wet. Phones get used a lot, and they wear out. There are places I take my phone where I do not and would not want to take my Palm, or the n810, because the risk of it being damaged is too great.
It's like having a TV with a built in DVD player. I have a $4000 television, and a $200 DVD player. I would not want the DVD player built into the TV for the same reason -- DVD players wear out faster than televisions.
Some things should not be combined.
That being said, if the n810 had 80 GB of storage instead of 4 GB of storage, I would not mind getting rid of my MP3 player. At 4 GB of storage, being able to play music on it is pretty much a useless gimmick, the same as being able to play music on my Palm.
As far as the DVD player analogy, that's kinda silly. The DVD player isn't integral to the functioning of the TV. If it stops working, you just buy another 200 dollar DVD player and hook it up. On top of that, it doesn't really apply to the discussion, since all-in-one devices are what the n800 is trying to replicate, IMO. More things stuck in one box are a GOOD thing in this discussion. If not, why does it have anything more than just a web browser? Why does anyone want a PIM on one? By your logic, you're better served by a separate palm pilot, cell phone, n800, iPod, digital camera, memory stick, portable DVD player, laptop, etc.
Yes, smartphones are a compromise, but EVERYTHING in the mobile world is a compromise. That's the price for putting big capabilities in a small package. I find the treo a very good compromise. It really doesn't take up much more space than a regular cell phone, and I've got access to all my appointments, e-mail, calendar etc. all the time. Not to mention the host of other things it brings to the table. Outside of a bigger screen, the only real thing that the n800 does better is browse the web, honestly. And that's perfectly ok, because that's why I bought it.
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2008-02-01
, 00:07
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Posts: 52 |
Thanked: 8 times |
Joined on Jan 2008
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#79
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Originally Posted by gompers
Exactly. Cell phones are cheap and nigh-disposable. Hell, you can get one at 7-11 (AM-PM for you west coast people). An expensive device -- a palmtop computer, say -- should not have a cell phone built in, because when the cell phone dies, or you you change cell phone providers, then where are you? Carrying a separate cell phone anyway, and your palmtop is bigger than it needs to be because it has a now-useless cell phone built in. Cheap, bulky, disposable things should not be built into small, long-lasting, expensive things.
As far as the DVD player analogy, that's kinda silly. The DVD player isn't integral to the functioning of the TV. If it stops working, you just buy another 200 dollar DVD player and hook it up.
As for separate MP3 player and palmtop, that's what I have now, not because it should be that way, but because the n810 has negligible storage. If it had a 80GB drive, I could stop carrying my equally-expensive MP3 player around.
But that's tangential to the topic at hand, which pertains to Palms, and if Palm users can switch to the n810. To sum up *that* discussion, the answer is "no" -- the n810 does not duplicate any of the core functionality of a Palm made since 2000, not because the n810 hardware is lacking, but because the n810 software is lacking, and in all likelihood will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
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2008-02-01
, 02:39
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Posts: 322 |
Thanked: 28 times |
Joined on Feb 2007
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#80
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Originally Posted by bblackmoor
Hmm, you appear to be a person that will probably keep carrying a Palm since it sounds like you need maximum PIM capablities. I don't know where Palm technology was in 2000. I will just reiterate that the GVM software , which when one has a working setup as is possible right now, can give you basic PIM technology. I also found a company last night that sells software to sync Palm Desktop or Outlook or others to Gmail. I tried it last night and it worked flawlessly. Here's a link to the company : http://www.companionlink.com/product...forgoogle.html
Palms, and if Palm users can switch to the n810. To sum up *that* discussion, the answer is "no" -- the n810 does not duplicate any of the core functionality of a Palm made since 2000, not because the n810 hardware is lacking, but because the n810 software is lacking, and in all likelihood will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.
So, syncing between N800 and Palm Desktop and then between Desktop and Google. Not ideal, but pretty good I think.
Neil
So I use my Treo650 for my basic calendar etc and I enjoy the easy ability to just beam or send contacts,events, business cards etc to my 'spare' TX, or a business associates who are using various versions of the PalmOS. My efforts on my N800 just have not worked.
TreoMemo and Tealscript are two well done programs I found very useful and would love to see working well in the N series in some way.
While I love the intelligent simplicity of the Palm appearances, I really do like our Nseries interface. So for media play and a few other good apps, the IT N800 is still a fine fun gadget, yet I wish it could realize its fuller potential before the gang at Nokia ditch it and move on which according to the latest notions is likely not too far off.