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2010-10-09
, 15:08
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#72
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Originally Posted by wmarone
I think I understand your perspective (and this message may not be responding directly to your sentiment).....
Except they went and used a non-standard Java. Also, there is no sense in perpetuating the myth that these devices are somehow "special" and require toolkits that don't have implementations easily used on the desktop.
But consider the varied state of mobile hardware at Android's inception and the uncertainty of hardware into the future. I think desktop linux advocates take for granted the reality that 99% of implementations are x86 compatible with huge computational resources and thus easily served by large repositories of compatible binaries. This is a subtle difference with the young and volatile smartphone market and other small devices (eg. google TV). Android repositories serve binaries that reach all devices easily without needing to cater to individuals.
It seems that many of the design decisions that went into Android were not simply to make the smartphone seem special, or to be different, but to handle the case of disparate hardware and simultaneously deal with resource constrained environments -- the mobile condition. It largely succeeds at this. This may partially explain its rapid proliferation in the market and its adoption by developers.
Even Nokia's Maemo/MeeGo seeks to create a customized envioronment/toolkit to handle the mobile performance/form-factor case, and while it's closer in character to traditional linux, it still requires boatloads of work and customization to have it run in an optimal way. Similary I bet the early Android engineers considered re-thinking traditional linux where they felt improvements could be made, though they likely were a little more 'creative' on that front.
Some of the design decisions may not stack up against traditional linux in their respective areas, though some of the explored ideas may be worth more serious consideration. In an open environment, it's good to have multiple implementations of the 'same' thing as this is a representation of innovation and is better for the community in the long run.
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2010-10-09
, 15:15
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#73
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Originally Posted by tso
Well, the Android App Market is a storefront more than a public repository. There are other competing marketplaces here and coming, repositories where users can download APK's, and websites that serve up their own. This free competition is what will really force the hand of the Google Marketplace specifications.
If it was not clear, i dislike this activity as it removes some of the incentive for Google to fix its troubling requirements. In a way it becomes much the same response as the everpresent "just jailbreak" that pops up every time Apple pulls something user hostile on iphone.
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2010-10-09
, 15:25
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Posts: 1,082 |
Thanked: 1,235 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
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#74
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Originally Posted by tso
Well google said tablet optimization is coming in Android 3.0. How is this Android market hack anything like Jailbreaking? Archos isn't preventing or discouraging anyone from hacking, nor are they restricting what applications you can or can't download. To a large extent they encourage hacking http://www.archos.com/products/ta/ar...try=us&lang=en
If it was not clear, i dislike this activity as it removes some of the incentive for Google to fix its troubling requirements. In a way it becomes much the same response as the everpresent "just jailbreak" that pops up every time Apple pulls something user hostile on iphone.
Last edited by railroadmaster; 2010-10-09 at 15:27.
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2010-10-09
, 15:43
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#75
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Originally Posted by Capt'n Corrupt
While true, Google uses every chance it gets to parade their market as THE android market. There are even a boatload of software (free and payed alike) that is only available via said market (largely because of the forced mental connect between Google run market and android as a os).
Well, the Android App Market is a storefront more than a public repository. There are other competing marketplaces here and coming, repositories where users can download APK's, and websites that serve up their own. This free competition is what will really force the hand of the Google Marketplace specifications.
As such, people expect said market to come installed with android. And even tech bloggers, that one expect to be more knowledgeable, gets tripped up over this time and time again.
Each time Google presents a upgraded android, they also talk about market improvements. But do they mention that the inclusion of said market is dependent on a very long list of conditions? Simply no.
Google is trying to use market access, and to a lesser degree their services apps, to put a leash on the runaway cat known as android. And these hacks allows them to get away with it rather then putting a spotlight on the root issue.
__________________
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
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2010-10-09
, 15:50
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#76
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Originally Posted by railroadmaster
Huh? all i recall reading is that bloggers hope it will come with 3.0, based on a "may" from Google at around the time of the 2.2 unveiling.
Well google said tablet optimization is coming in Android 3.0. How is this Android market hack anything like Jailbreaking? Archos isn't preventing or discouraging anyone from hacking, nor are they restricting what applications you can or can't download. To a large extent they encourage hacking http://www.archos.com/products/ta/ar...try=us&lang=en
And i never said that Archos is discouraging it. I laid the blame squarely at Google. Hell, Archos have everything to gain from encouraging it. More sales that way.
Thing is, i can see Google having issue letting paid apps out there. They would risk a riot of returns, and bad press, if they did so. But why not put a "free only" market out there for anyone to use on any device that runs android? Or for that matter make the Google services apps more fine grained? This so that a device can get gmail and calendar even if it lacks compass and gps.
I would claim that this would be much more user friendly then the current "all or nothing" way.
__________________
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
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2010-10-09
, 16:14
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#77
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Originally Posted by tso
Of course, I understand this, but give it time. Android is an open OS, and will only be 2 years old in 11 days! The current multiple-markets and disjointed repositories are a fine example that things *can* be different and *indeed* are heading in that direction. This will happen despite speculated Google clandestinity.
While true, Google uses every chance it gets to parade their market as THE android market. There are even a boatload of software (free and payed alike) that is only available via said market (largely because of the forced mental connect between Google run market and android as a os).
As such, people expect said market to come installed with android. And even tech bloggers, that one expect to be more knowledgeable, gets tripped up over this time and time again.
Each time Google presents a upgraded android, they also talk about market improvements. But do they mention that the inclusion of said market is dependent on a very long list of conditions? Simply no.
Google is trying to use market access, and to a lesser degree their services apps, to put a leash on the runaway cat known as android. And these hacks allows them to get away with it rather then putting a spotlight on the root issue.
I wouldn't be surprised to see community driven repositories of open applications, as well as projects that improve interoperability between Android and more traditional Linux distros.
Android looks structured to capitalize on many of the characteristics that make Desktop Linux great!
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2010-10-09
, 16:22
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Posts: 3,524 |
Thanked: 2,958 times |
Joined on Oct 2007
@ Delta Quadrant
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#78
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Originally Posted by tso
While Android is open, the Google Marketplace is not. It's a store, just like Walmart, designed with a primary focus to sell applications. I suspect that like any store, Google's storefront decisions are inspired less by altruism and more by profit generation. But this is the very nature of our society, and Google has every right to do this, they are a company after all.
Thing is, i can see Google having issue letting paid apps out there. They would risk a riot of returns, and bad press, if they did so. But why not put a "free only" market out there for anyone to use on any device that runs android? Or for that matter make the Google services apps more fine grained? This so that a device can get gmail and calendar even if it lacks compass and gps.
But it's very positive step that they still permit competing repositories/stores and don't stifle open innovation. Where the Marketplace may be too restrictive, the Amazon android store may be more inclusive -- for example.
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2010-10-09
, 16:45
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Posts: 4,783 |
Thanked: 1,253 times |
Joined on Aug 2007
@ norway
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#79
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At least they could be more outwardly clear that their market is not a integral part of android, and as such not a guaranteed part of android. But given the number of articles i have read where people are confused about a device with android but without market, that is anything but the case.
__________________
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...
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2010-10-09
, 17:46
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Posts: 1,082 |
Thanked: 1,235 times |
Joined on Apr 2010
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#80
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Originally Posted by tso
I'm going to have to agree with TSO on this one. There is clearly a demand for running Android on devices that aren't phones such as mids, netbooks, and tablets and these devices from what I have seen have little to no problems running Android and Android applications. Requiring a gps, camera, or compass is also stupid because most applications don't use those things. So for now Android won't run very well on devices that aren't phones, but MeeGo will probably be good for devices like Mids/Internet Tablets, Tablets, and Netbooks.
While true, Google uses every chance it gets to parade their market as THE android market. There are even a boatload of software (free and payed alike) that is only available via said market (largely because of the forced mental connect between Google run market and android as a os).
As such, people expect said market to come installed with android. And even tech bloggers, that one expect to be more knowledgeable, gets tripped up over this time and time again.
Each time Google presents a upgraded android, they also talk about market improvements. But do they mention that the inclusion of said market is dependent on a very long list of conditions? Simply no.
Google is trying to use market access, and to a lesser degree their services apps, to put a leash on the runaway cat known as android. And these hacks allows them to get away with it rather then putting a spotlight on the root issue.
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Be warned, posts are often line of thoughts at highway speeds...