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lma is offline lma
2009-09-14 , 11:14
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#81
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
Port vs. native development

Is it OK to apply the very same developer-karma calculations for someone who'd only re-package an existing tool without even touching the source code?
Original code should count for more IMHO, but even straight ports should get something for the packaging and maintenance effort.

Maybe using two fields in the downloads page ("author" vs. "contact") could be a starting point to change this.
I think the "author" field comes from the Maintainer: field in debian/control, and unfortunately there's no such distinction in the Debian spec :-(

Another problem is that the distinction is not always clear-cut. We have straight ports (eg most command line tools) and completely original maemo-specific apps at the two extremes, but also ports with lots of maemo-specific changes inbetween, sometimes with the "porter" being the same as the "author" (eg claws-mail) and sometimes a different person (eg xournal or pidgin).

Dependencies
What about packages that are listed as dependencies of other packages? Say I port either a library (or an interpreter for a new language...) to Maemo, and 359 applications start using this library (or interpreter). Most probably nobody would ever download it from /downloads/OS2008/ or comment on it
A library wouldn't even appear there in the first place. Maybe package maintainers could get an additional x points for each package that depends on one of theirs?

Fire exit
Karma calculations are one thing and will always be "wrong" for some people, no matter how good the system actually is.
The developer device program is another issue. It can be, but needn't be exclusively tied to karma. You could, say, make it public that a list of x developers will receive a discount based on their karma. Afterwards, those who're not part of this list should be given a chance to be elected by popular outrage
I agree, and this should also apply to other karma-based rewards like summit sponsorship.

(Thanks for an excellent post btw)
 

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bergie is offline bergie
2009-09-14 , 11:17
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#82
Originally Posted by X-Fade View Post
Another thing we could use is the app karma feature (In Downloads). App karma is basically going to show which apps are relevant. (Relative downloads stats, comments and ratings are being used there)
Additionally, we might utilize commit counts from Ohloh (see for example MaemoPlazer) to figure out how much each developer is contributing to the project.
 

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qgil is offline qgil
2009-09-14 , 12:12
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#83
For karma and ohloh see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5012

This shows that we should move good ideas from bugzilla and talk to brainstorm...

btw Henri, can you have a look to the permissions? People posting ideas can't edit them https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5133
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attila77 is offline attila77
2009-09-14 , 12:54
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#84
Originally Posted by bergie View Post
Additionally, we might utilize commit counts from Ohloh (see for example MaemoPlazer) to figure out how much each developer is contributing to the project.
Commit count is a very unreliable stat (as people have different (D)VCS usage patterns), and quite often newcomers or non-regular contributors just send patches to core developers, who then apply them to trunk.

I would also join the request of those who would like to see a karma multiplier based on just how Maemo a project is, say along the lines of 'straight port', 'localized Maemo application' (for something properly hildonized, etc), 'designed for Maemo' (for something written exclusively or primarily for Maemo).
 

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Reggie is offline Reggie
2009-09-14 , 14:56
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#85
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
You realize that if you go through with this chain of thought it means development should NOT relate to karma ?
How's that so? If a small, rewarding karma system was in place during the active Canola development days, iNdT should have gotten so much karma now -- and they deserved it. They asked for feedback for each version and they got pages and pages of comments, suggestions, and bug reports. This in turn resulted to significant improvements to the app.

Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
If you have karma, you have competitiveness, and if we really want to hair-split that in itself can result in scenarios that stop development..
No one wants development to stop, and we both agree that there should be a development karma system of some sort. What I guess we don't agree on is what the karma is for. I look at it as a reward for developers for making good apps and continuously improving them thru end-users' feedback. If you look at it at the 'competitiveness' point of view, well, that is something I didn't think about nor want to go in to.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-14 , 15:10
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#86
I agree with Reggie. I don't want to see developers rewarded for competing with each other as much as I want them competing with themselves (ie, continuously taking feedback and putting it into the best work they can do, etc).

In the broader sense, I would prefer developers be rewarded for collaborating with each other. Now-- the challenge is to measure THAT.

Originally Posted by lma View Post
A library wouldn't even appear there in the first place. Maybe package maintainers could get an additional x points for each package that depends on one of theirs?
Ooo... that's a start...
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Last edited by Texrat; 2009-09-14 at 15:12.
 

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bergie is offline bergie
2009-09-14 , 15:41
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#87
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
Commit count is a very unreliable stat (as people have different (D)VCS usage patterns), and quite often newcomers or non-regular contributors just send patches to core developers, who then apply them to trunk.
Ohloh does analyze more than just numbers of commits. They look at lines of code, comment % etc. The "Contributor Fact" API is quite interesting.

As for non-regular contributors not getting credited, that depends entirely on the culture and tools of the project. Git (that is anyway available on Garage) makes it quite easy to credit even people just sending simple patches.

I'm not saying this should be the only (or even the main) source of karma from applications, but it would be a nice addition to the formula.
 

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attila77 is offline attila77
2009-09-14 , 15:53
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#88
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I agree with Reggie. I don't want to see developers rewarded for competing with each other as much as I want them competing with themselves (ie, continuously taking feedback and putting it into the best work they can do, etc).
That's why I oppose hints like 'top x karma developers/holders will get into the discount program' - that's a direct call for a karma race.

Originally Posted by bergie
Ohloh does analyze more than just numbers of commits. They look at lines of code, comment % etc. The "Contributor Fact" API is quite interesting.
Yes, I'm familiar with Ohloh metrics (been an Ohloh member myself for some time now), I'm just saying that it's a very rough indicator - lines of code and amount of changes say nothing about the genius contained within that code.
 
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bergie is offline bergie
2009-09-14 , 16:00
Posts: 381 | Thanked: 847 times | Joined on Jan 2007 @ Helsinki
#89
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
Yes, I'm familiar with Ohloh metrics (been an Ohloh member myself for some time now), I'm just saying that it's a very rough indicator - lines of code and amount of changes say nothing about the genius contained within that code.
Genius contained within the code should probably be apparent from other factors in the karma count - app downloads, ratings and so forth.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2009-09-14 , 16:21
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#90
Originally Posted by bergie View Post
Genius contained within the code should probably be apparent from other factors in the karma count - app downloads, ratings and so forth.
Absolutely, which brings us back to arguments that this should (must?) be a mixed metric.
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