Volt, we do expect venting. But it seems you're still missing a point or two as well... venting is NOT the issue.

No, it's not the best forum for venting.

If people want to vent about their N900, the best way they can do this is by phoning Nokia or posting on Nokia.com. That kind of feedback goes directly to the people who actually make the N900.

Maemo.org has only a very vague relationship to Nokia, and "venting" here will not really help anyone. That was the entire point of my original post.

The people who are on maemo.org are volunteers who are trying to improve the Maemo platform.

Just because lots of people assume something doesn't make it true. Most people think Sydney is the capital of Australia, that doesn't mean it is.

I don't agree with that at all, personally. Just because people are childish and immature does NOT mean we have to put UP with it.

If we were forced to not say anything to people being unreasonable and just "accept it".. I think you'll find a vast majority of the guys/gals that like helping the newcomers will all of a sudden not like helping anymore.. and all you'll have left is your forum of unreasonable people. This is not good, IMHO.

T.m.o is so good, at least partly I think, because we call people on their crap sometimes. And very often.. if they are a normal person, they will adjust their tone and they become productive members. OTOH - if they are "trolls" or "sociopaths" as Texrat calls them.. they continue to exhibit the same behavior, over and over, and get told, over and over, to stop. We can't just assume we should accept this behavior because it's expected bad people will eventually find their way here because they are everywhere else too.

Nobody in their right mind would just "accept" that some people are silly and just deal with it. If we didn't try and fix this then the atmosphere of the entire community suffers.. and it's unacceptable.

Venting does work for catharsis, where ever... but true venting is an outburst followed by some regret and possibly true resolution. The problem here really isn't normal, human venting. It's persistant trolling, flamebaiting, etc. I really wish we could get those distinctions hard-coded and move the dialog...

Maybe I should again point out that I don't defend their behavior, I just ask that people don't set up expectations that very few people would live up to when they are experiencing disappointment.

Criticism in itself is valuable. Constructive criticism may be more valuable, but one a flaw is pointed out, someone else might start being constructive about it.

I suspect some of these people are resistance driven. I tend to be myself. If I say "this function isn't good enough!" and people said "Yes. You're right!" then I'd usually not have anything more to say about that. But if people keep arguing against it, I'd keep the subject going until I know they see my main points.

This thread relevant?

I have two things I'd like to mention.

One: Is is possible that these people are trying to be the squeaky wheel? Perhaps they assume (right or wrong) that Nokia pays some attention to this community and perhaps if Nokia sees enough consternation about *insert what you please* they will fix it, or at least are more likely to fix it.

Two: Maybe this is something that users can do already, I didn't see it, but would it be possible to implement an ignore function, so that say for example, in my profile I say that I don't want to see post by *insert your nemesis here*. Obviously, you would lose some continuity in threads where these people were posting, but...just a thought.

How well and often is that working out for ya?

(it hasn't yet for my fourteen-yr-old son)

I believe there already is an ignore feature. I personally don't use it.. I personally don't feel I should *have* to ignore someone.

I probably miss a point or two, but let me assure you I do understand a lot of the points you do make.

Also... This site, I mean "talk" specifically, isn't a volunteer community any more! It is maemo.org - the best resource for finding/downloading software for maemo products. The best resource for reading more about bugs, and definitively the best resource for fixing them. I doubt 5% of the people that use maemo.org and talk.maemo.org contribute in form of code.

It's a user community. May not be ment to be, and may not have started out as one, but now it is.

Yes, you can ignore specific users already.