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Nathraiben is offline Nathraiben
2010-06-29 , 12:03
Posts: 267 | Thanked: 408 times | Joined on May 2010 @ Austria
#81
Nokia didn't care about the PR effect of taking nearly $100,000,000 of public funds for creating long term jobs - just to shortly after close down their factory and move to a low-wage country.

So why would they care about PR effects of something so much more trivial?
 

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Northerner is offline Northerner
2010-06-29 , 12:50
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#82
It's not just a Maemo issue - it affects anyone who has had the misfortune to use a Nokia phone since MyNokia was launched.

I've not used Symbian or Maemo devices for months, but I still get unwelcome SMS, sometimes daily, to all the mobile numbers I used on those devices. They go to personal and work phones, and are intrusive and extremely annoying.

And, this is the real bugbear, not one of those messages has given any information on how to stop or unsubscribe the so-called "service".

I was under the impression that all direct marketing had to include this information?

One thing's for sure, this is turning out to be a real PR disaster for Nokia. The sheer arrogance of the "official" reply quoted in this thread just makes things worse. Are they that stupid that they cannot see their insistence on continuing this practice just makes anyone who has already abandoned their products more resolute than ever never to touch Nokia again? And to actively spread the word to discourage others from making the same mistake?

Looks to me like it's already happening and gone Global:

http://www.mobileinc.co.uk/2010/06/t...s-spam-fiasco/

http://davehall.com.au/blog/dave/201...nokia-sms-spam
Last edited by Northerner; 2010-06-29 at 12:55.
 

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SD69 is offline SD69
2010-06-29 , 12:53
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#83
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb View Post

I am still hoping that Nokia will see their mistake, apologise, fix the PR1.2 problem and make a public commitment to the community that no Nokia Maemo or MeeGo device will ever again collect personal information without allowing the user to opt-out (with no impact on features). But it is just a hope -- I have not seen any evidence that this will happen unless there is either a major PR impact or a major legal impact first.
People, this is disappointing but I am not terribly surprised. Nokia has said that MeeGo OS will be open, but not their UX, apps and Ovi services, which will be "integrated into the user experience." Read this - and think how Nokia means to succeed in the business with the strategy.

http://www.nokia.com/NOKIA_COM_1/Tec...hite_paper.pdf

They will claim to be more open than most and probably be right. I have expressed my share of disappointment at the lack of openness, but it's time to address the situation as it exists. Look at the handset UX after it is released and decide if the community should attempt to provide an open UI to go on top of MeeGo?

This idea of dissuading the corporate machine will not work.
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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-06-29 , 12:58
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#84
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb View Post
I realise that Nokia employees cannot afford to make public statements which may contradict company policy.
...which, again, is not an excuse but part of the problem. - Nokia employees should be allowed an encouraged to make such statements. They needn't say "Ah, yes, I know, everything we do here is wrong and bad, but I can't change it." - no. But what would be wrong with "We at Maemo/MeeGo devices understand your concerns and we're discussing the issue internally. However, please understand that it's not just our decision. There's quite a few others here at Nokia who have a say in this matter, so we can't promise anything. We're not giving up though and will keep you informed."

What ragnar contributed here was basically the "... it's not just our decision" part (or maybe I'm interpreting too much... whatever).
What's missing - and what would be crucial to know - is the "we understand your concerns and we're discusing the issue internally". At the moment, we just don't know if the people we thought we knew even share our concerns.... or if they just stare at this discussion and have no idea why anyone is upset at all.
Last edited by benny1967; 2010-06-29 at 13:02.
 

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sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2010-06-29 , 13:05
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#85
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
My US retail N900 did NOT even try to register (and the US box, as pointed out already, does NOT mention registration/Ovi). Did not show any T&C on upgrade/reboot and did not send an SMS. Whether this is due to IMEI/SIM mismatch, unsupported country, some of the installed software interfering or simply a malfunction of the registration software, I don't know.
My N900 is a non-US model (from the Developer Device Program) and is running the global firmware. Its box does display the "This is an Ovi device." text and does not include the US in the list of approved countries for the FM radio. Still, nothing about My Nokia appeared during the OTA upgrade and no text message was sent.

I can't see Nokia using the GPS to make that choice, so it seems my AT&T SIM was the deciding factor, much as it is for Nokia Messaging.
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lma is offline lma
2010-06-29 , 13:08
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#86
Originally Posted by Graham Cobb View Post
The lawyer did confirm that they are relying on the text on the box to claim that the user has "authorised" the registration.
IANAL, but I'm fairly confident that anyone claiming that some tiny, low-contrast print hidden at the end of the copyright notice on the back of the retail packaging constitutes a legally binding contract will be laughed out of court in most sane jurisdictions. Not to mention that MyNokia is not Ovi, and not mentioned anywhere in that almost illegible print.
 

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Graham Cobb is offline Graham Cobb
2010-06-29 , 13:31
Posts: 162 | Thanked: 351 times | Joined on Apr 2006 @ Cotswolds, UK
#87
Originally Posted by lma View Post
IANAL, but I'm fairly confident that anyone claiming that some tiny, low-contrast print hidden at the end of the copyright notice on the back of the retail packaging constitutes a legally binding contract will be laughed out of court in most sane jurisdictions. Not to mention that MyNokia is not Ovi, and not mentioned anywhere in that almost illegible print.
Yes, and I also pointed out that as they didn't show the T's and C's when I first turned on the phone, and could reasonably have returned it for a refund, it was unlikely to be valid now. I asked if I could return my phone for a refund if I didn't like the PR1.2 conditions -- I got no reply.

I also mentioned that it seemed likely to me that a court might require a rather more active opt-in before agreeing that I had authorised Nokia to physically damage my device so I cannot return it to the previous software version (PR1.1) and not accept the new conditions.
 

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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2010-06-29 , 16:45
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#88
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
My N900 is a non-US model (from the Developer Device Program) and is running the global firmware. Its box does display the "This is an Ovi device." text and does not include the US in the list of approved countries for the FM radio. Still, nothing about My Nokia appeared during the OTA upgrade and no text message was sent.
Interestingly my September prototype running the Global firmware DID force me to subscribe after installing PR1.2 (while I was located on US soil, using an AT&T SIM), I have received no text messages from the service so far, however.
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2010-06-29 , 16:53
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#89
Originally Posted by lma View Post
IANAL, but I'm fairly confident that anyone claiming that some tiny, low-contrast print hidden at the end of the copyright notice on the back of the retail packaging constitutes a legally binding contract will be laughed out of court in most sane jurisdictions. Not to mention that MyNokia is not Ovi, and not mentioned anywhere in that almost illegible print.
Depends on the court jurisdiction. In the US, some of the most idiotic, counter-consumer shrink-wrap (and similar) terms have been upheld...
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ysss is offline ysss
2010-06-29 , 16:56
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#90
However legal and 'in the right' Nokia is on this issue, it still doesn't give a representation of goodwill on their part.

Moreover, if this is such a value added service, why not pimp it with a big shiny sticker in front and a clear graphical notice to the user?

Inconsistent messages..
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