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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2010-10-24 , 16:51
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#81
Originally Posted by me2000 View Post
a) Then ship it ! Ship early, ship often !

b) It is not "good to go". The testers running Meego 1.1 are plagued with issues. That is why there is no release.
Also, we're shipping early and often - 1.1 has had daily repository dumps, weekly images since the beginning. So will 1.2 have. How is this not ship early and often? :P

There is no release because well, it's coming out on Wednesday and there'll be 1.1 updates later probably. It's known there's bugs and they're public because well, jolly, it's a open project. There'll always be what's determined release blockers and those that aren't. And any product ships with known bugs.

We are on a fixed release schedule. http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1 remember?
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me2000 is offline me2000
2010-10-24 , 16:52
Posts: 117 | Thanked: 26 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#82
MeeGo is going to be on a 6 month cycle. But it's always open, so the release is constant (unlike say, Android, which is released when Google feels like it.)
Yes, except when you ask to try to run the N900 image, people say its not ready. So all we can do is sit on the outside and watch. That isn't open to me. Heck, the N900 image didn't even get built for a period of time because it had stopper bugs. And that prevented others from working on their parts and end users from testing it.

Lets say this... the N900 is the first and biggest Meego handset platform. And it literally has ZERO user testing on it. How can it be ready for release ?

Contrast this to how Fedora does things. Strict feature freezes. Daily/weekly builds. Code breakages are not allowed. Several live versions. Several RCs. Releases into a -testing repository. Lots of end user testing. Then and only then is it ready to be released. None of this has happened with Meego.

Don't dare tell me that anything they have thus far is ready for release, because by the open community standards, its not even close.
 
wmarone is offline wmarone
2010-10-24 , 16:55
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#83
Originally Posted by me2000 View Post
Yes, except when you ask to try to run the N900 image, people say its not ready. So all we can do is sit on the outside and watch. That isn't open to me.
It's open. Not handed to you on a silver platter, but nonetheless open. You can even participate if you want.

Heck, the N900 image didn't even get built for a period of time because it had stopper bugs. And that prevented others from working on their parts and end users from testing it.
Did you not read a word he said? Did you seriously ignore everything that Stskeeps just wrote, especially the line about ARMv5 images still being built?

You seem more than happy to attack and attack, but not to participate or pay any attention.
 

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me2000 is offline me2000
2010-10-24 , 16:58
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#84
There is no release because well, it's coming out on Wednesday and there'll be 1.1 updates later probably.
News to me. I have not heard any marketing information on this. I read the Linux homepage daily and I have not seen a single article.

The schedule here says it was supposed to release last week. (http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1)

At the very least it slipped a week and nobody updated the plan. Contrast this to Fedora where there are release milestones and the plan gets updated as soon as a milestone slips. Google Fedora + slip and you'll see what I mean.

I understand the Meego team is probably pretty new and they are early in things, but this is a hugely important release for Nokia and they need to get things right, including the development and project management.

I will be very, very happy if a quality piece of software ships on Wednesday and I will heap praise on the developers if it happens.
 
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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2010-10-24 , 16:59
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#85
Originally Posted by me2000 View Post
Yes, except when you ask to try to run the N900 image, people say its not ready. So all we can do is sit on the outside and watch. That isn't open to me. Heck, the N900 image didn't even get built for a period of time because it had stopper bugs. And that prevented others from working on their parts and end users from testing it.
Uhm..

Did you see http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/meego-codedrop.php and when we used it, and http://repo.meego.com/MeeGo/builds/ ?

Also, when a platform is in motion and being developed, there will be stopper builds. It's a fact of life. The light can't be showing 'green' constantly.

Contrast this to how Fedora does things. Strict feature freezes. Daily/weekly builds. Code breakages are not allowed. Several live versions. Several RCs. Releases into a -testing repository. Lots of end user testing. Then and only then is it ready to be released. None of this has happened with Meego.

Don't dare tell me that anything they have thus far is ready for release, because by the open community standards, its not even close.
Again, look at the release page. And at http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engine...lease_Timeline and at http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Process , and at http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Handse...eport/MeeGo1.1

These things happen, you know.

Also, let me remind you again: what is being shipped from meego.com is a platform, not a end-user product.

If it was an end-user product we'd have MP3 codecs, Flash and other things. And you'd have to help pay the royalities for those features.
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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2010-10-24 , 17:02
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#86
Originally Posted by me2000 View Post
The schedule here says it was supposed to release last week. (http://wiki.meego.com/Release_Engineering/Plans/1.1)

At the very least it slipped a week and nobody updated the plan. Contrast this to Fedora where there are release milestones and the plan gets updated as soon as a milestone slips. Google Fedora + slip and you'll see what I mean.
No.

Please pay attention to figure 1:



That's the perspective the 'week' is supposed to be understood.

1.1.0.0 2010-10-21--2010-10-27
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SD69 is offline SD69
2010-10-24 , 17:18
Posts: 1,513 | Thanked: 2,248 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ US
#87
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post

I don't exactly recall what you mean by 'not built for a month' - we had some down time with the ARMv7 build but all the due while we were doing ARMv5 images. We uncovered a GCC bug that broke even the simplest of things, including DBus and it took some time to locate and fix.



Even if MeeGo 1.1 isn't the swan I hoped myself it would be, I'm bloody proud of the work and effort we've (as in the team and the people contributing to the port) put into the N900 side of things.
Thanks for the report. After 1.1 release, will we be on track to getting a N8x0 adaptation to test?

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=41

We have to decide whether to move ahead with SSU^2 or MeeGo adaptation.
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me2000 is offline me2000
2010-10-24 , 17:19
Posts: 117 | Thanked: 26 times | Joined on Dec 2009
#88
Here is the quality handset test report for October 22, 2010.
http://wiki.meego.com/Quality/Handse...ptance20101022

This is presumably the same software that you are saying will be released on October 27th.

Highlights

============================================
Key Issues:
8268- Double thumnail windows display when launching the xterm.
8414- Video playback is not smooth on N900.
7074- Incoming call can not be answered if dialer not open when call is received.
8194- [REG] Call a contact crashes contacts application.
===========================================

Result Overview
Total TCs 36
Passed 21
Failed 9
Not testable 6
Run rate 83.33%
Pass rate of total 58.33%
Pass rate of executed 70%

==========================================
Dial one outgoing call, accept by other party, terminate this call (phonesim, GSM & WCDMA) (GSM and WCDMA cannot be covered until real modem supported,Will use phonesim to test before real modem support)
==========================================
Scan wifi, check wifi connection (open/wep/wpa) and disconnection Fail
Bug 8043 - Settings application crashes on connecting to a WLAN AP
=========================================
As comment 1 of Feature 5770, usb mass storage device is detected by computer is moved to 1.2
========================================
Bug 7170- Battery level not shown
========================================
Top bugs
8268- Double thumnail windows display when launching the xterm.
7728- Sometimes black screen occurs when launching an application.
5850- It takes long time to launch core applications at the first time.
3590- The screen view is reversed when turn the device 180¡ãor 270¡ã
5790- Bluetooth settings does not display properly after tapping Bluetooth from Settings
7170- [N900] Battery level not shown
8043- Settings application crashes on connecting to a WLAN AP
8362- "start playing music" is not shown when no music is playing in music player.
7052- Some index letters of Video application are not displayed
8414- Video playback is not smooth on N900.
5882- DBus method requests to services not yet started timeout and loose context.
8194- [REG] Call a contact crashes contacts application.
==========================================

Call me a ignorant, but this doesn't look like the signature of software that is ready to ship 3 days from now. To me it looks like the team is shipping untested software that has a lot of bugs.
 
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Stskeeps is offline Stskeeps
2010-10-24 , 17:23
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#89
Originally Posted by SD69 View Post
Thanks for the report. After 1.1 release, will we be on track to getting a N8x0 adaptation to test?

http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p...4&postcount=41

We have to decide whether to move ahead with SSU^2 or MeeGo adaptation.
I think there's room for both, but I've been asking around about borrowing some build time to do a ARMv6+VFP build. And today while I was in transit I've spent time researching how to do it properly.

It seems like there's some awesome kernel work ongoing in the OpenWRT project, so that's covered..
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2010-10-24 , 17:29
Posts: 1,671 | Thanked: 11,478 times | Joined on Jun 2008 @ Warsaw, Poland
#90
Originally Posted by me2000 View Post
Call me a ignorant, but this doesn't look like the signature of software that is ready to ship 3 days from now. To me it looks like the team is shipping untested software that has a lot of bugs.
I stand by that known bugs are better than unknown bugs. There was something about a big end user product shipping with thousands of known bugs..

Also, some of these are simply features that wouldn't go into 1.1.

Keep in mind there's a release and then based on the featureset, fixes are delivered as things go along:

http://wiki.meego.com/images/MeeGoReleaseTimeline.JPG

So, yes, there's known bugs, but some were determined release blockers and some not. The release has to go out on a fixed release schedule. No delays.

In an ideal world we would start out with a perfect platform, add features, fix bugs in those features before they make it into Trunk. But fact is: we started off a non-perfect platform and non-perfect components.

1.2's where it's at.

1.1 needs to go out to let those who'd like to build a product (netbook, handset, ivi, whatever) based on the platform to finish up their work.

1.1 is already useful for some purposes, but Handset isn't there yet. Probably more like a Handset UX 0.5.
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