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gerbick
2011-03-30 , 20:09
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#81
Originally Posted by retsaw View Post
Nokia's decision on which frequencies to use may suck from a US perspective, but from a business perspective they make sense.
Using a modular or using the same GSM radio in the N8 would have made sense too.
 

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2011-03-30 , 20:40
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#82
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I never quite understood why Nokia produced only a T-Mobile compatible version and didn't make a version that worked with the much larger AT&T.
Contrary to danramos' usual supposition (), no conspiracy or ineptitude necessary. As one poster noted, the T-Mobile frequencies are more global. In addition, there was apparently a launch planned with T-Mobile USA that for whatever reason never occurred.


Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Yes, clearly it was an excellent business decision to dismiss the US perspective. We can clearly see how that worked out. Clearly.
Pointless sarcasm. You know very well the US market pales in comparison to what Nokia can accomplish in other, more open parts of the globe.

A little more objectivity and a little less silliness, please.


Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Using a modular or using the same GSM radio in the N8 would have made sense too.
Philosophically agreed. Unfortunately, US carriers have way too much control over technical aspects of devices. Trust me on this one. You really don't want to know how bad it actually is.
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Last edited by Texrat; 2011-03-30 at 20:45.
 

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2011-03-30 , 20:53
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#83
Originally Posted by Crashdamage View Post
Correct. Southwestern Bell was one of the 'Baby Bells' formed when the AT&T monopoly was broken up. Later on the withered remains of AT&T was really struggling and bought by SBC mainly for the brand recognition. SBC wanted to shed the regional implications of 'Southwestern Bell' for a nationally-known name. I remember a lot of people at the time thought SBC was wasting their money. Goes to show the power a brand can have.
Very true,but what confuses me is how a failed company is able to make a successful company SBC/SWBT into what it is now? if plan A didn't work before why would it work now?
 
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2011-03-30 , 21:06
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#84
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
T-Mobile frequencies are more global. In addition, there was apparently a launch planned with T-Mobile USA that for whatever reason never occurred.
I think you hit it there. By building the N900 to work with T-Mo instead of AT&T it's true Nokia had a potential US market about half as large, but a larger potential market globally. So it made sense. Plus T-Mo is much friendlier about using unlocked phones on their network than AT&T is.

I don't believe The N900 was ever intended to lead an onslaught into the US market anyway. It was only supposed to generate some buzz, get Nokia's name in the game for Maemo devices yet to come. But T-Mo backed out of officially supporting it (too much training needed to do customer support was why, I hear) things kinda fizzled, Maemo became MeeGo and confusd the issue further, and now we have Elopgate...
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2011-03-30 , 21:13
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#85
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Contrary to danramos' usual supposition (), no conspiracy or ineptitude necessary. As one poster noted, the T-Mobile frequencies are more global. In addition, there was apparently a launch planned with T-Mobile USA that for whatever reason never occurred.
Since I see that Easter will be coming up soon, allow me to conjure up the image of putting all your eggs (raw and uncooked, step 4 of 5, no less) in one T-Mobile basket and.. oh darn, T-Mobile decided to snatch their basket back and drop all your eggs!

No supposition necessary--the time for that is past, since we can now look back on what has happened. No conspiracy necessary, either. Everything's already played out. Remember? We saw the press release about how they had planned to put it out on T-Mobile and the drama that ensued shortly afterwards, followed by the tragic lack of support (USB port problems, slow trickle of updates, lack of transparency to let the community update/fix things, etc.) I would tend to agree with your final point, though, that I think it's just some obvious "ineptitude" on Nokia's executive decisions and lack of forethought.

Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Pointless sarcasm. You know very well the US market pales in comparison to what Nokia can accomplish in other, more open parts of the globe.

A little more objectivity and a little less silliness, please.
Pointless sarcasm? This is why Nokia keeps CLAMING (even while failing) that they need to make better inroads into the competitive US market and lost their dominance as the largest platform? They seem to be doing so GREAT that they needed to replace their CEO, drop Symbian and Maemo (possibly MeeGo?), laid off a large wave of employees and look financially awkward lately. They're far from dead--but they've reached an apogee and they appear to be nosing down into a dive and hitched themselves with a losing platform to boot. This does not inspire confidence. The US market may not be as large as the world's--duh, but it's a major market that tends to influence the world market as well as being a very large one in and of itself.

I agree. A little more objectivity and a little less silliness, please.
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2011-03-30 , 21:56
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#86
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Since I see that Easter will be coming up soon, allow me to conjure up the image of putting all your eggs (raw and uncooked, step 4 of 5, no less) in one T-Mobile basket and.. oh darn, T-Mobile decided to snatch their basket back and drop all your eggs!
I respectfully refer you back to comments about exclusive contracts and carrier demands. If you're unaware of these, you may want to bone up in order to avoid embarrassment.
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2011-03-30 , 22:26
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#87
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I respectfully refer you back to comments about exclusive contracts and carrier demands. If you're unaware of these, you may want to bone up in order to avoid embarrassment.
And I refer back to my previous comments about modularity (possibly PCIe and/or USB) and how some have already done this elsewhere (in my previous post about it, I even cited some links to an example). Whew! Embarrassment averted! Cognizance, Tex.
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2011-03-30 , 23:10
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#88
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
And I refer back to my previous comments about modularity (possibly PCIe and/or USB) and how some have already done this elsewhere (in my previous post about it, I even cited some links to an example). Whew! Embarrassment averted! Cognizance, Tex.
You're trying to oversimplify the subject. I worked in the trenches here; I know how the mobile game is played and know it's more complicated than you seem willing to acknowledge. There's far more politics involved than technology. Nokia's business model has placed them on the wrong side of those politics, so other players were favored. Anyone who knows the industry and is capable of objectivity understands what I'm alluding to.

The bottom line is that the US market sucks. If only consumers here knew what they were being denied and how badly they had it compared to other parts of the world. Ah, then again, maybe they'd still take it. As we found out when Nokia tried a direct-to-consumer approach, there are always manufacturers willing to sell their souls to nab the market share that another one cedes. How well did that sacrifice work out for Motorola?

Nokia screwed up in many, many ways, but at least they tried to offer US consumers more choice. Too bad the carriers were in the way. And too bad Nokia was not agile enough to recover.

You hate Nokia. We got that hundreds of posts ago. I think your hatred of the company is blinding you to the bigger picture. But by all means post another several hundred rants. Can I request you at least flavor them up a bit? Some of the points are long past stale.
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gerbick
2011-03-30 , 23:19
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#89
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
Contrary to danramos' usual supposition (), no conspiracy or ineptitude necessary. As one poster noted, the T-Mobile frequencies are more global. In addition, there was apparently a launch planned with T-Mobile USA that for whatever reason never occurred.
I get that, but what kills me is that they didn't think about making an option for the folks that could have benefit the most and given them a choice. It's not like they don't make phones that work on AT&T. Switch out the radio.

Philosophically agreed. Unfortunately, US carriers have way too much control over technical aspects of devices. Trust me on this one. You really don't want to know how bad it actually is.
Actually... I have maybe a hair's width of information on how bad things are, and I'm thoroughly disgusted. But if anything, we're talking about one chipset to appeal to more folks than the 4th largest carrier.

It's not like I'm saying "go CDMA"... I'm just saying go where your competition is truly at (AT&T/iPhone) or at least go where you'd have a wider audience (AT&T) or launch it correctly at T-Mobile (which didn't happen).

It just looks like bad decisions all the way around.
 

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2011-03-31 , 00:17
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#90
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
I get that, but what kills me is that they didn't think about making an option for the folks that could have benefit the most and given them a choice. It's not like they don't make phones that work on AT&T. Switch out the radio.



Actually... I have maybe a hair's width of information on how bad things are, and I'm thoroughly disgusted. But if anything, we're talking about one chipset to appeal to more folks than the 4th largest carrier.

It's not like I'm saying "go CDMA"... I'm just saying go where your competition is truly at (AT&T/iPhone) or at least go where you'd have a wider audience (AT&T) or launch it correctly at T-Mobile (which didn't happen).

It just looks like bad decisions all the way around.
Please note that I'm not defending any of this when I attempt to explain it. But we really don't know what politics were involved here. When a decision doesn't seem to make sense on the surface (especially technically), it's a safe bet politics are lurking just underneath.
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