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jalyst is offline jalyst
2011-07-28 , 06:40
Moderator | Posts: 5,320 | Thanked: 4,464 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#2751
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Case in point... let the evidence show...
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56036&page=60
Close-source ANYTHING tightly integrated enough and left unsupported by Nokia leads to this crap.
An inevitable consequence of the shift to mostly QML/Qt
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...87#post1059687
A solution will come in time, I'm sure you know that

Originally Posted by danramos View Post
The N900 people used to tell me, "Well.. get an N900, then!" when these things started to happen. The N900 people are going to start running into this soon enough too because Fremantle is no longer current, Nokia doesn't care about supporting it, it's riddled with closed-source and eventually nobody will care because, "well.. get an N9, then!" Planned obsolescence of a device that marketed itself as open-source.
Android's widely touted as powered by open-source & yet obsolescence is 'par for the course' there too.
I usually have to get a new phone about once/yr, my N900's had a longer innings than that.
Good thread here for those whom want to continue the Android Vs MeeGo theme going.
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=955
Last edited by jalyst; 2011-07-28 at 07:06.
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-28 , 07:12
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#2752
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
An inevitable consequence of the shift to mostly QML/Qt
http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...87#post1059687
A solution will come in time, I'm sure you know that

Android's widely touted as powered by open-source & yet obsolescence is 'par for the course' there too.
Usually have to get a new phone about once/yr, my N900's had a longer innings than that.

Good thread here for those that want to continue the Android V MeeGo debate going
http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=955
Except my ancient Motorola Droid, a device quickly reaching two years old now, is STILL able to run a majority of the new stuff that comes out in the Android Market with no sign of being left behind anytime soon. And then, still, Google seperated out their closed-source from the operating system more and more to the point where you aren't REQUIRED (or even assumed) to have Google's apps--not even the launcher (desktop application). Meanwhile, Nokia placed MORE closed-source in and even locked down the UI. Near as I can tell, the Android people mention open-source, but don't necessarily go around advertising open-source as a main feature like Maemo did. The Android folks appear to be doing a better job of open-sourcing than Nokia ever did with the exception of pure MeeGo contributions--and they even walked away from that. Thanks to that openness, I've been able to throw the latest, bleeding edge CyanogenMod (a community made) distribution of Android onto my Motorola Droid... and we're being told that there is still plenty of life left to these old devices under Android. Meanwhile, we're STILL waiting for the Fremantle source that Nokia promised to open to the community to backport to the N8x0's, nevermind Harmattan. Sadly, point goes to Android--and that's the most disappointing part: It was supposed to be BETTER, not the same or worse. So much for the obsolesce argument in Maemo vs Android.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-28 , 07:19
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#2753
Heck, I even noticed that I needed to bump up the revisions in my signature because I upgraded from Android 2.3.3 to 2.3.4 with the newest CyanogenMod on my Motorola Droid. Frequent and meaningful updates and upgrades--without necessarily buying a new product. Refreshing to feel supported. Android's brand isn't tarnished. How's that N900 upgrade to MeeGo coming, or do you still recommend just buying an N9 to keep the ball rolling?
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
hotnikkelz is offline hotnikkelz
2011-07-28 , 07:48
Posts: 241 | Thanked: 324 times | Joined on Dec 2010
#2754
Poor N900 the faithfuls are so faithful.
 

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jalyst is offline jalyst
2011-07-28 , 08:20
Moderator | Posts: 5,320 | Thanked: 4,464 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#2755
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Except my ancient Motorola Droid, a device quickly reaching two years old now, is STILL able to run a majority of the new stuff that comes out in the Android Market with no sign of being left behind anytime soon.
I can still run new stuff on my N900
Not necessarily from a "commercial marketplace", because it never really had one

Meanwhile, Nokia placed MORE closed-source in and even locked down the UI.
What are these more closed-source elements you speak of compared to fremantle?
Re UI, as I've said countless times now, read Kate's writings.

Near as I can tell, the Android people mention open-source, but don't necessarily go around advertising open-source as a main feature like Maemo did.
You think so? I don't...
Heaps of Android users tout that when raging against iOS users.

The Android folks appear to be doing a better job of open-sourcing than Nokia ever did.
Statement of belief.
I'd rather see a nice detailed list comparing components open vs closed, before I had an opinion either way.

with the exception of pure MeeGo contributions--and they even walked away from that..
How so?

Meanwhile, we're STILL waiting for the Fremantle source that Nokia promised to open to the community to backport to the N8x0's, nevermind Harmattan. So much for the obsolesce argument in Maemo vs Android.
What do you mean, most of that's available, back-port isn't a given though, & why should it be.
If Maemo/MeeGo had the same kind of critical mass Android did, & it was more vendor agnostic, there'd prolly be more fluidity there.

But unlike Google, Nokia's just as much a hardware company as it is a software one...
So even if Maemo/MeeGo was much more popular, I don't know if it'd ever be as vendor neutral/re-adaptable as Android.
But I wouldn't care, there's no reason why it can't evolve nicely in it's own vendor-centric world (ala iOS), so long as it has the user-base to stimulate commercial dev/services interest.

Fact is, obsolescence/deprecation can & does occur in many of the same ways on Android.
It's just that the platform as-a-whole is not in a massive state of flux like Maemo/MeeGo, so devs can adapt more readily.

It's not even really fair to compare Android/MeeGo, they're so damn different in so many ways it's not funny, +Maemo/MeeGo's had a far more protracted path to commercial release.
We're only now getting to their 1st truly commercial/polished Linux-based handset, but sadly it's being killed on arrival, so we'll never know what may or may not have been.

Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Heck, I even noticed that I needed to bump up the revisions in my signature because I upgraded from Android 2.3.3 to 2.3.4 with the newest CyanogenMod on my Motorola Droid. Frequent and meaningful updates and upgrades--without necessarily buying a new product. Refreshing to feel supported. Android's brand isn't tarnished. How's that N900 upgrade to MeeGo coming, or do you still recommend just buying an N9 to keep the ball rolling?
PR1-1.3
CSSU...
N900CE (still very rough but has potential)
Never heard of em?

So long as the MeeGo community remains miniscule compared to Android.
Then N900CE will always have a tougher time than community distros like CyanogenMod.
But that doesn't mean I'm going to walk away entirely, you can if you want
Last edited by jalyst; 2011-07-28 at 08:53.
 

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Grazy is offline Grazy
2011-07-28 , 08:32
Posts: 196 | Thanked: 76 times | Joined on Jul 2011 @ Near St. Albans UK
#2756
does anyone else find that twitter is not displaying all the clues, answers and times of the next clue? i don't have an account, is that why?? its really annoying! it doesnt update when you go to it! it just comes up 1 new tweet even though sometimes that tweet was a hour or ago!!
 
0x4e84 is offline 0x4e84
2011-07-28 , 08:42
Posts: 55 | Thanked: 140 times | Joined on Mar 2011 @ Switzerland
#2757
Originally Posted by Grazy View Post
does anyone else find that twitter is not displaying all the clues, answers and times of the next clue? i don't have an account, is that why?? its really annoying! it doesnt update when you go to it! it just comes up 1 new tweet even though sometimes that tweet was a hour or ago!!
Yep, same issue on my side. I also suscribed to the RSS feed, but clues and anouncements come late, or just don't arrive at all.
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-07-28 , 08:53
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#2758
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
I can still run new stuff on my N900
Not necessarily from a "commercial marketplace", because it never really had one
Say... what ever happened to Ovi and ANGRY MAN! heheh Since you're able to run new stuff, did you get that newest upgrade to Harmattan yet?

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
What are these more closed-source elements you speak of compared to fremantle?
Re UI, as I've said countless times now, read Kate's writings.
Yep, there's that--here, I'll do you a kindness since it appears you've missed it the first time:
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
Maemo has always been rife with closed source bits that were coupled tightly enough into the OS that the open bits were only moderately useful. MeeGo has improved on that, but Nokia isn't shipping MeeGo. They're shipping Maemo 6, effectively, with a even thicker slathering of closed source this time: we can't even modify how the desktop operates, let alone some of the system control daemons (dsme, etc.)
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
You think so? I don't...
Heaps of android users tout that when raging against iOS users.
Sure--because they CAN legitimately claim to be far more open-source than Apple's iOS. Maemo had great potential to be more open but that was never realized despite the marketing claims of open-source code and development and it's only gotten worse as time went on, instead of better.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
Statement of belief.
I'd rather see a nice detailed list comparing components open vs closed, before I had an opinion either way.
Fair enough. I don't have statistical facts about that. Let me know if you find numbers before I do, but it has been shown somewhere in these threads elsewhere that Maemo has been growing increasingly closed-source at an incredible rate even while opening SOME things up.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
How so?
Did Nokia come back to support and fund MeeGo after all? If memory serves, they pointed out that they were no longer doing another Maemo or MeeGo device and were severely cutting all finding and ties to Maemo and MeeGo, leaving Intel by itself.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
What do you mean, most of that's available, back-port isn't a given though, & why should it be?
If Maemo/MeeGo had the same kind of critical mass Android did, & it was more hardware platform agnostic, there'd be more fluidity there.

But unlike Google Nokia's just as much a hardware company, as it is a software one.
So even if Maemo/MeeGo was much more popular, I don't know if they'd ever be as readily re-adaptable as Android.

Fact is, obsolescence/deprecation can & does occur in many of the same ways on Android.
It's just that the platform as-a-whole is not in a massive state of flux atm like Maemo/MeeGo, so devs can adapt more readily.
Wow.. speaking of flux. That was about as sensible an explanation as I'm sure you could make, but it made no sense at all. Again, I must remind you we're talking bout an open-source OS that should be able to be backported easily had it ACTUALLY been open-source without intentional hobbling to force customers to have to buy the next thing. We didn't buy Maemo for its closed-ness, we were marketed openness.

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
PR1-1.3
CSSU...
N900CE (still very rough but has potential)
Never heard of em?
PR1-1.3 was a minor update played up as a major one. I started out at Android 2.0, went to Android 2.1.. then 2.1.1. Stock Maemo 5 was the next major upgrade of Maemo, the PR's were minor. Hardly worth mentioning as OS upgrades. CSSU even less so. But let's give you that--how often ARE those security and fixes coming in from CSSU too? N900CE isn't a supported release. I went well into Android 2.2.1 before I jumped into CyanogenMod and bumped up to 2.3.x and we're still going... and it's not been rough at all. Hear that? It's the sound of ongoing support--both from Google/Motorola and from the community with open-source upgrades to the devices. So please... go on. How's MeeGo coming along on the N900 again? Google's been happy to help AND take from CyanogenMod--what's Nokia done for MeeGo lately besides pulling out of it?

Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
So long as the MeeGo community remains miniscule compared to Android.
Then N900CE will always have a tougher time than community distros like CyanogenMod.
But that doesn't mean I'm going to walk away entirely, you can if you want
What choice do I have? I can't even walk TOWARD it if I wanted to. They dropped N8x0 support and I'm not going to waste another penny on Nokia's POTENTIAL anymore after the way they've treated us already.
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Nokia's slogan shouldn't be the pedo-palmgrabbing image with the slogan, "Connecting People"... It should be one hand open pleadingly with another hand giving the middle finger and the more apt slogan, "Potential Unrealized." --DR
 
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Cod3rror is offline Cod3rror
2011-07-28 , 09:04
Posts: 66 | Thanked: 27 times | Joined on Jul 2011
#2759
New "clue".

CLUE: ElGamal is the thing. g=10, p>304 http://nokia.ly/qNTpRr #N9Seconds
Hey nokia, if I could calculate all this ********, I'd work for NASA you *******s, not waste time with your stupid contest, post something easier FFS, I am not Russell Crowe.
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Free yourself from nokia's morlock cave, discover the future, today: iPhone!
 

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lma is offline lma
2011-07-28 , 09:10
Posts: 2,802 | Thanked: 4,491 times | Joined on Nov 2007
#2760
Originally Posted by jalyst View Post
What are these more closed-source elements you speak of compared to fremantle?
The "UX", which apparently doesn't just refer to the user interface (window manager, task switcher etc) but everything user-facing, including all the apps.
 

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