Page 3 of 8 12 3 45 Last »
Reply
Thread Tools
tkatchev is offline tkatchev
2011-09-04 , 13:47
Posts: 163 | Thanked: 256 times | Joined on May 2010
#21
Dude, no offence, but you're rambling and not making sense.

Yes, Maemo is a closed-source monstrosity.

Meego, on the other hand, is a very generic, very much run-of-the-mill standard open-source Linux distribution.

They are two very different OS's.

Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Well, except that most other modern Linux distributions don't interweave their closed-source in such a way as to make it virtually impossible or incredibly difficult to remove the closed-source from parts of the OS that have nothing to do with the hardware (i.e. calendar app, multimedia, etc.). Maemo did.
 

The Following User Says Thank You to tkatchev For This Useful Post:
momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-09-04 , 15:04
Posts: 673 | Thanked: 856 times | Joined on Mar 2006
#22
Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
Dude, no offence, but you're rambling and not making sense.

Yes, Maemo is a closed-source monstrosity.

Meego, on the other hand, is a very generic, very much run-of-the-mill standard open-source Linux distribution.

They are two very different OS's.
For once, let us clear what term "Open Source Software" is supposed to mean.

Originally it was devised to serve as a synonym to "Free Software" (as in freedom, like rms says). Most people do comprehend the two terms and synonyms and apply Open Source to the end user.

Unfortunately, the initiatives like Android and Meego are targeting hardware vendors instead. From their point of view (hardware vendors), Open Source is Free Software, but from the point of end user, Open Source != Free Software.

I hope I made everything clear now. Meego and Android are not Open Source for end users, we need true Free Software (as a free beer) for the end users.

Now I ask you: are you a vendor or an end user?


BTW somebody mentioned more liberal licensing somewhere: More liberal licensing (than GPL) from the point of vendor means ability to screw end users by limiting the lifetime of a device.
__________________
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
Last edited by momcilo; 2011-09-04 at 15:10.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to momcilo For This Useful Post:
wmarone is offline wmarone
2011-09-04 , 15:12
Posts: 1,746 | Thanked: 2,100 times | Joined on Sep 2009
#23
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
I hope I made everything clear now. Meego and Android are not Open Source for end users, we need true Free Software (as a free beer) for the end users.
MeeGo and Android could certainly be that. The problem is the attitude of the hardware manufacturers, regardless of the platform they use.

And as it stands, if you try to force the issue with the GPLv3 they'll just walk away. Pick your battles.
 

The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to wmarone For This Useful Post:
momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-09-04 , 15:45
Posts: 673 | Thanked: 856 times | Joined on Mar 2006
#24
Originally Posted by wmarone View Post
MeeGo and Android could certainly be that. The problem is the attitude of the hardware manufacturers, regardless of the platform they use.

And as it stands, if you try to force the issue with the GPLv3 they'll just walk away. Pick your battles.
No they will not. It takes years to develop os.
__________________
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
 
giorgosmit is offline giorgosmit
2011-09-04 , 16:03
Posts: 114 | Thanked: 239 times | Joined on Jan 2011 @ Greece
#25
Vendors are wary to the point of being phobic about FOSS and surrendering control to users. See the debacle with the locked bootloaders and software blobs on android handset manufacturers. Factor in the almost mccarthy-esque paranoia about tech secrets and patents, and I find it very hard to believe that a true FOSS OS (meaning truly GPL 3 compliant) would be viable in today's market. The big players would probably not even touch it.
Last edited by giorgosmit; 2011-09-04 at 16:05.
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to giorgosmit For This Useful Post:
momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-09-04 , 16:17
Posts: 673 | Thanked: 856 times | Joined on Mar 2006
#26
Originally Posted by giorgosmit View Post
Vendors are wary to the point of being phobic about FOSS and surrendering control to users. See the debacle with the locked bootloaders and software blobs on android handset manufacturers. Factor in the almost mccarthy-esque paranoia about tech secrets and patents, and I find it very hard to believe that a true FOSS OS (meaning truly GPL 3 compliant) would be viable in today's market. The big players would probably not even touch it.
Imagine the situation where Linux kernel goes GPL3 in future.

Some may choose to follow google and apple (fork existing project, if they are bold enough), more will choose to accept it (and continue business as usual), but none will start development from scratch, it is too late for that.

Besides, I think we are already off the topic.
__________________
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
 

The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to momcilo For This Useful Post:
tkatchev is offline tkatchev
2011-09-04 , 18:23
Posts: 163 | Thanked: 256 times | Joined on May 2010
#27
Again. Let me stress something, for the third time in this thread:

MeeGo is a standard Linux distribution, not at all different from Ubuntu, CentOS, Debian or Mint or what-have-you.

Being a very simple and generic Linux distribution, MeeGo does not hardware vendors any more than Ubuntu or CentOS target hardware vendors.

The difference is that for desktop and server systems you can buy an open, standard commodity system and install any OS you wish. For handsets and tablets -- not so much, yet.

P.S. Even so -- desktop and server Linux distributions need hardware vendor support, too. Though the support usually comes in the form of a couple binary blobs for video/network chips.


Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
For once, let us clear what term "Open Source Software" is supposed to mean.

Originally it was devised to serve as a synonym to "Free Software" (as in freedom, like rms says). Most people do comprehend the two terms and synonyms and apply Open Source to the end user.

Unfortunately, the initiatives like Android and Meego are targeting hardware vendors instead. From their point of view (hardware vendors), Open Source is Free Software, but from the point of end user, Open Source != Free Software.

I hope I made everything clear now. Meego and Android are not Open Source for end users, we need true Free Software (as a free beer) for the end users.

Now I ask you: are you a vendor or an end user?


BTW somebody mentioned more liberal licensing somewhere: More liberal licensing (than GPL) from the point of vendor means ability to screw end users by limiting the lifetime of a device.
 

The Following User Says Thank You to tkatchev For This Useful Post:
Larswad is offline Larswad
2011-09-04 , 19:39
Posts: 385 | Thanked: 426 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Gothenburg, Sweden
#28
The thing I resent with android is that ugly java crap. The ideology, openness and all that is just fine, but putting a shitty software based java engine in there makes it just so damned inferiour to all the possibilities given by an OS where you can develop applications in native code.
I have looked at the android tablets, and they actually look slow and jerky.
(No, I don't like any of the iCrap ones either, don't even go there).
To be honest, OP is right. I would have loved seeing a tablet in future based on MeeGo. Look at the possibilities, with Qt and the (real) linux based software in it.
Android in my oppinion is just plastic linux, not the real deal.
 

The Following User Says Thank You to Larswad For This Useful Post:
momcilo is offline momcilo
2011-09-04 , 22:03
Posts: 673 | Thanked: 856 times | Joined on Mar 2006
#29
Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
Again. Let me stress something, for the third time in this thread:

MeeGo is a standard Linux distribution, not at all different from Ubuntu, CentOS, Debian or Mint or what-have-you.

Being a very simple and generic Linux distribution, MeeGo does not hardware vendors any more than Ubuntu or CentOS target hardware vendors.
Meego does not belong among aforementioned distributions. Reason: governing methods (you might argue about ubuntu and centos in some aspects).

Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
The difference is that for desktop and server systems you can buy an open, standard commodity system and install any OS you wish. For handsets and tablets -- not so much, yet.
There is no rational reason for that.

Originally Posted by tkatchev View Post
P.S. Even so -- desktop and server Linux distributions need hardware vendor support, too. Though the support usually comes in the form of a couple binary blobs for video/network chips.
Ok, lets count the binaries:
- nvidia (not essential)
- ati (not essential)
- broadcom (well if this counts since GPL-ed drivers works better).
- ???
please complete the list.

The first 2 may become essential in future due to the gnome 3 dependency on clutter.
__________________
http://gpl-violations.org/faq/violation-faq.html
 
tkatchev is offline tkatchev
2011-09-05 , 04:44
Posts: 163 | Thanked: 256 times | Joined on May 2010
#30
Originally Posted by momcilo View Post
Meego does not belong among aforementioned distributions. Reason: governing methods (you might argue about ubuntu and centos in some aspects).
MeeGo is governed by the Linux Foundation. What is Ubuntu governed by?? Mark Shuttleworth?

There is no rational reason for that.
Indeed, and I'm sure that many people agree with you on that. (Intel top-managers among them. )

Ok, lets count the binaries:
- nvidia (not essential)
- ati (not essential)
- broadcom (well if this counts since GPL-ed drivers works better).
- ???
please complete the list.
Nvidia and ATI are essential. (Unless you don't ever-ever want to watch a movie or play a game on your device...)
 
Reply
Page 3 of 8 12 3 45 Last »

Tags
meego no-go, new dawn fades, orphaned

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

 
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:18.

Contact Us - Home - Archive - Top