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| The Following User Says Thank You to geohsia For This Useful Post: | ||
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2011-09-28
, 23:31
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#2
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Originally Posted by geohsia
first off, with the announcement only made yesterday, I'd suggest that all parties are scrabbling to find ground and determine where things will go from here.
Hi,
I've been trying to search various threads but have not found the answer so I was hoping the gurus here would enlighten us.
With the announcement of Tizen, where does this leave the various community efforts to bring MeeGo / MeeGo-Harmattan CE / HE / ?E to the N900.
My guess is that they're all closed and CSSU is it. I would just appreciate it if someone would just say so explicitly.
Back when the N900 was just out if Nokia just stuck to their guns and held on to Maemo and knocked out Harmattan without the distraction of MeeGo I wonder if we'd be in a different place. I guess we'll never know.
To my understanding I'm not aware of any efforts to bring harmattan to N900 in it's current N950/N9 form, so I guess there's no change there.
As for the N900CE (REAL Meego) builds, I can only hope that we'll see the 1.3 release before it all ends.
Given that Intel has been fairly specific about Tizen targetting Intel chipsets, I would think that all Arm ports of Meego may not have much of a future, so for those interested, now might be a good time to start downloading the non-oss components from the repo.
Don't assume that Meego was the distraction that caused all the grief for Nokia.
Nokia's decision to completely rewrite for Qt was the major hurdle for the quick and smooth progression of Fremantle to Harmattan, not their involvement with Meego.
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2011-09-28
, 23:47
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Posts: 515 |
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Joined on Jan 2010
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#3
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Originally Posted by onethreealpha
Got it. For some reason I remember a MeeGo-Harmattan HE or something but with all of the various iterations I probably misunderstood.
To my understanding I'm not aware of any efforts to bring harmattan to N900 in it's current N950/N9 form, so I guess there's no change there.
As for the N900CE (REAL Meego) builds, I can only hope that we'll see the 1.3 release before it all ends.
Harmattan is now the only MeeGo related release ever existing. As far as I recall while people mention MeeGo-compatible, I don't think that was ever officially stated by the MeeGo community or Intel. Again, I defer to others who would clarify more the exact situation.
Given that Intel has been fairly specific about Tizen targetting Intel chipsets, I would think that all Arm ports of Meego may not have much of a future, so for those interested, now might be a good time to start downloading the non-oss components from the repo.
Don't assume that Meego was the distraction that caused all the grief for Nokia.
Nokia's decision to completely rewrite for Qt was the major hurdle for the quick and smooth progression of Fremantle to Harmattan, not their involvement with Meego.
I can only guess that resources poured into MeeGo could have also been better used with Harmattan. I would not say that MeeGo came at no cost. It certainly will bear no fruit.
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2011-09-29
, 00:26
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Posts: 434 |
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@ Australia
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#4
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Harmattan's relationship to Meego is a lot looser than most realise. the compatibility aspects are what Nokia used to argue for using the "Meego" brand, and yet thanks to good marketing and a media that is happy to use catchy names, most people actually believe that the N9 is real Meego.
For those that would hope to continue developing Meego on Arm, having Noka's non-oss components (BME, Graphics Drivers etc) will allow this to continue, using the N900 as a reference platform, thus my suggestion that people may wish to ensure they have them.
As it stands LF has indicated that Meego will still live on as a seperate entitiy to Tizen, however without funding for servers and repo hosting, this is far from a guarantee that code will be accessible form a central source.
most of the nono-oss (nokia closed) components have seen ongoing development and are all stable enough for regular use (N900CE already using these wothout problems), so individuals wishing to pplay with Meego on the N900 will need these.
Harmattan development was already taking place within Nokia, before the push to Meego.
I'd argue that the Symbian development Teams in Nokia played a greater role in strangling Harmattan Development than Meego.
Re-writing Harmattan for Qt was supposed to ease the transition of applications and development when progression to "real" Meego took place at some undecided, future time.
For me, it's a disappointing outcome, but reflects a two-finger salute to Nokia by Intel, as, at this point the continuation of Qt for Tizen seems only to have a concrete base in netbook development with no firm answers coming from Intel as to other platforms.
there has been consistent talk for a long time that one of the reasons other hardware vendors weren't interested in Meego is due to Qt (Nokia owned) and the percieved leverage that this gave Nokia.
Intel has now done a three step dance (Moblin > Meego > Tizen) and still haven't produced anything substantial.
Having an OS for handsets is great (as most here at TMO would, these days, be less concerned about tablets and/or netbooks) but not having any handsets to put them on makes it a bit of a joke.
For those that would hope to continue developing Meego on Arm, having Noka's non-oss components (BME, Graphics Drivers etc) will allow this to continue, using the N900 as a reference platform, thus my suggestion that people may wish to ensure they have them.
As it stands LF has indicated that Meego will still live on as a seperate entitiy to Tizen, however without funding for servers and repo hosting, this is far from a guarantee that code will be accessible form a central source.
most of the nono-oss (nokia closed) components have seen ongoing development and are all stable enough for regular use (N900CE already using these wothout problems), so individuals wishing to pplay with Meego on the N900 will need these.
Harmattan development was already taking place within Nokia, before the push to Meego.
I'd argue that the Symbian development Teams in Nokia played a greater role in strangling Harmattan Development than Meego.
Re-writing Harmattan for Qt was supposed to ease the transition of applications and development when progression to "real" Meego took place at some undecided, future time.
For me, it's a disappointing outcome, but reflects a two-finger salute to Nokia by Intel, as, at this point the continuation of Qt for Tizen seems only to have a concrete base in netbook development with no firm answers coming from Intel as to other platforms.
there has been consistent talk for a long time that one of the reasons other hardware vendors weren't interested in Meego is due to Qt (Nokia owned) and the percieved leverage that this gave Nokia.
Intel has now done a three step dance (Moblin > Meego > Tizen) and still haven't produced anything substantial.
Having an OS for handsets is great (as most here at TMO would, these days, be less concerned about tablets and/or netbooks) but not having any handsets to put them on makes it a bit of a joke.
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Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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2011-09-29
, 00:38
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#5
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ooh, ooh... I get to be a Negatron!
Debian based Maemo was shoved towards RPM based Moblin, and what came out from that year long attempt was the Debian based Harmattan on top of MeeGo 1.2 and not much more.
No comments about what Tizen will be based on, but I pretty much can guess that the update from MeeGo 1.2 to Tizen 1.x will not happen.
Okay, honestly... I don't know. But I can speculate. And to be honest, it's all too soon to start in on this discussion. It's easier to say "no, won't happen" than chase down what might happen when some planning and proper reactions are in place instead. That's my take.
Debian based Maemo was shoved towards RPM based Moblin, and what came out from that year long attempt was the Debian based Harmattan on top of MeeGo 1.2 and not much more.
No comments about what Tizen will be based on, but I pretty much can guess that the update from MeeGo 1.2 to Tizen 1.x will not happen.
Okay, honestly... I don't know. But I can speculate. And to be honest, it's all too soon to start in on this discussion. It's easier to say "no, won't happen" than chase down what might happen when some planning and proper reactions are in place instead. That's my take.
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2011-09-29
, 01:00
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Posts: 515 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#6
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Originally Posted by onethreealpha
Agreed.
Harmattan's relationship to Meego is a lot looser than most realise. the compatibility aspects are what Nokia used to argue for using the "Meego" brand, and yet thanks to good marketing and a media that is happy to use catchy names, most people actually believe that the N9 is real Meego.
For those that would hope to continue developing Meego on Arm, having Noka's non-oss components (BME, Graphics Drivers etc) will allow this to continue, using the N900 as a reference platform, thus my suggestion that people may wish to ensure they have them.
I'd argue that the Symbian development Teams in Nokia played a greater role in strangling Harmattan Development than Meego.
Re-writing Harmattan for Qt was supposed to ease the transition of applications and development when progression to "real" Meego took place at some undecided, future time.
For me, it's a disappointing outcome, but reflects a two-finger salute to Nokia by Intel,
So what does Nokia have to do now to get Qt to work on WP?
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2011-09-29
, 01:21
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Posts: 434 |
Thanked: 990 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Australia
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#7
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I guess the point would be, some people will continue to play with Meego for the simple pleasure in tinkering with it.
i use it on my n900 and enjoy it for what it is, and what it has taught me about development and building in a Qt framework, from UI to application/hardware interaction.
Given elop's committment to WP i agree that it didn't appear to have a mainstream future (at least the near future) at Nokia.
Not British. at least I don;t think I whinge that much
whilst already having a presence in windows Desktop environments, I'm not sure where Qt will go wrt WP.
All of the Marketing spin about the "next billion" was mainly in reference to s40 taking a foothold in developing markets like the asian continent, and although I haven't tried it, given that the wp sdk link on the Nokia website were all pointing to the MS sdk, i'd say Qt doesn't play a big role in WP at Nokia, but am happy to stand corrected.
@ gerbick. I'd be less inclined to call your words negative as opposed to pragmatic......
something to be said for kubuntu mobile on the N900: deb based, support for qt through kde and fully open source (except for the non-oss drivers to get it working smoothly on the n900 )
i use it on my n900 and enjoy it for what it is, and what it has taught me about development and building in a Qt framework, from UI to application/hardware interaction.
Given elop's committment to WP i agree that it didn't appear to have a mainstream future (at least the near future) at Nokia.
Not British. at least I don;t think I whinge that much
whilst already having a presence in windows Desktop environments, I'm not sure where Qt will go wrt WP.
All of the Marketing spin about the "next billion" was mainly in reference to s40 taking a foothold in developing markets like the asian continent, and although I haven't tried it, given that the wp sdk link on the Nokia website were all pointing to the MS sdk, i'd say Qt doesn't play a big role in WP at Nokia, but am happy to stand corrected.
@ gerbick. I'd be less inclined to call your words negative as opposed to pragmatic......
something to be said for kubuntu mobile on the N900: deb based, support for qt through kde and fully open source (except for the non-oss drivers to get it working smoothly on the n900
)
__________________
Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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2011-09-29
, 01:49
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Posts: 515 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#8
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Originally Posted by onethreealpha
I guess so. If this was some variant of Harmattan I'd think it would be nice, but MeeG0 1.3? I mean there are absolutely 0 apps.
I guess the point would be, some people will continue to play with Meego for the simple pleasure in tinkering with it.
whilst already having a presence in windows Desktop environments, I'm not sure where Qt will go wrt WP.
All of the Marketing spin about the "next billion" was mainly in reference to s40 taking a foothold in developing markets like the asian continent,
I still think the S40 / Symbian / WP Strategy has a few gaps. Just a few. ;-)
and although I haven't tried it, given that the wp sdk link on the Nokia website were all pointing to the MS sdk, i'd say Qt doesn't play a big role in WP at Nokia, but am happy to stand corrected.
Last edited by geohsia; 2011-09-29 at 01:52.
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2011-09-29
, 03:25
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Posts: 434 |
Thanked: 990 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Australia
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#9
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Not quite, there has already been a reasonable amount of effort that's gone into creating apps for meego, including ports of existing arm based stuff and others from the mameo lineup.
obviously not enough to appeal to mainstream users, but for hobbyists and ppeople who might continue to develop for arm in qt?
I agree that Elop's strategy (Plan A - WP, Plan B - make Plan A work) is strategically and professionally irresponsible, however, having said that, and knowing that despite the Intel move to Tizen, Meego will remain an OS project under the LF and as such, Nokia still has freedom to continue to use it for R&D (and possibly a board supported "Plan C" if Elop's strategy fails)
Qt on the otherhand is a whole lot more than Nokia. KDE is a big player in the Desktop environment and a lot of work is going into developing KDE (and Plasma) for mobile-centric environments. Qt will live on for a long time and with Swipe UI getting good reviews wordlwide, it showcases the benefits of developign with Qt/QML.
Qt for WP? who knows, but nokia will need something, and given that samsung has just jumped into bed with MS over licensing, which apparently will include flexibility in UI development for WP on their handsets, Nokia will need something amazing to differentiate themselves from the market.
given that the current reviews of Mango are more of an "about time MS caught up to the rest of the crowd" statement than any real innovation, it will be interesting times. The funny thing is, the biggest thing most have had to say is the talk of live widgets being able to integrate dynamically and the threaded SN messaging improvement (ironic that nokia dropped Maemo/Harmattan, when it already had this 2 years ago...)
obviously not enough to appeal to mainstream users, but for hobbyists and ppeople who might continue to develop for arm in qt?
I agree that Elop's strategy (Plan A - WP, Plan B - make Plan A work) is strategically and professionally irresponsible, however, having said that, and knowing that despite the Intel move to Tizen, Meego will remain an OS project under the LF and as such, Nokia still has freedom to continue to use it for R&D (and possibly a board supported "Plan C" if Elop's strategy fails)
Qt on the otherhand is a whole lot more than Nokia. KDE is a big player in the Desktop environment and a lot of work is going into developing KDE (and Plasma) for mobile-centric environments. Qt will live on for a long time and with Swipe UI getting good reviews wordlwide, it showcases the benefits of developign with Qt/QML.
Qt for WP? who knows, but nokia will need something, and given that samsung has just jumped into bed with MS over licensing, which apparently will include flexibility in UI development for WP on their handsets, Nokia will need something amazing to differentiate themselves from the market.
given that the current reviews of Mango are more of an "about time MS caught up to the rest of the crowd" statement than any real innovation, it will be interesting times. The funny thing is, the biggest thing most have had to say is the talk of live widgets being able to integrate dynamically and the threaded SN messaging improvement (ironic that nokia dropped Maemo/Harmattan, when it already had this 2 years ago...)
__________________
Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.
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2011-09-29
, 03:47
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Posts: 515 |
Thanked: 259 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#10
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I meant Qt on Nokia phones I guess someone else could do the same. I don't know who else would though... on plane soon.. last post.
I've been trying to search various threads but have not found the answer so I was hoping the gurus here would enlighten us.
With the announcement of Tizen, where does this leave the various community efforts to bring MeeGo / MeeGo-Harmattan CE / HE / ?E to the N900.
My guess is that they're all closed and CSSU is it. I would just appreciate it if someone would just say so explicitly.
Back when the N900 was just out if Nokia just stuck to their guns and held on to Maemo and knocked out Harmattan without the distraction of MeeGo I wonder if we'd be in a different place. I guess we'll never know.